Tuesday, May 26, 2026

we have two minutes from the from the past two meetings, so the first item on the agenda is the acceptance of minutes. We have april 27 and may 11. Has everyone had a chance to review motion to accept the minutes?

Frances Uku  0:58  
Oh, I have to. I was just giving other people, I have two concerns about them both in the first, unless does anyone have any? Okay,

Karen Smythe  1:13  
the first meeting, the 27th the

Frances Uku  1:15  
27th Yes, so in there there is a motion that Trustee Uku made to table the resolution entitled "Resolution to Authorize Professional Training. So, there on page two, Trustee Allen seconded the motion. Trustee Uku, Trustee Allen, Trustee Rothstein voted the affirmative. Mayor Smyth and Deputy Mayor Kerrville did not vote. So, there is no provision in village law for every trust. Once something goes to a vote, every trustee must vote. The mayor has exceptions, because there are the mayor is not required to vote, although she does often. But

Melkorka Kjarval  1:50  
are you saying that I would have to abstain?

Frances Uku  1:52  
No, no, no. I'm saying that in the moment, and Jen usually makes sure that she has everyone's vote. No, I'm not saying that you would have had to abstain. I would. I'm saying that the vote is in, is not recorded correctly. Says you didn't, did not vote, but presumably you voted.

Karen Smythe  2:13  
So, will as gender confirm to confirm the vote? I would expect I did not vote, I Vote. I know I'm not required to, unless there's a.. unless it's to break the tie. So, we'll ask Jen to confirm

Karen Smythe  2:33  
anything else.

Frances Uku  2:34  
Moving on to the next, unless someone else has..

Karen Smythe  2:39  
well, that means we're going to table that one, so folks can look at it.

Frances Uku  2:41  
Oh, right. Okay, so we can. So, do you want to? No, but if you were making a motion to table a table adoption of this one of the of the workshop, would anyone like to say I can make it? Would anyone like to second?

Perry Allen  3:00  
Table this.

Frances Uku  3:02  
Thank you.

Karen Smythe  3:03  
All in favor,

Frances Uku  3:04  
thanks. And for the second, so we had the adoption of the minutes. I mean, Jen is very busy, so

Karen Smythe  3:15  
the acceptance of the minutes, it's not really adoption

Frances Uku  3:19  
acceptance, yes. Regardless, the vote count is incorrect. It has listed that trustee, trustee, trustee Rothstein abstained, which he did not. I am the only abstain vote from that motion to accept the minutes.

Craig Rothstein  3:38  
Yeah, I guess right.

Melkorka Kjarval  3:42  
Okay, so

Frances Uku  3:43  
yes, that was from may 11.

Craig Rothstein  3:45  
I don't think I was saying, I think to accept. No, that was about to accept on a site

Frances Uku  3:49  
to accept. Yes, I abstained, and I stated a reason why, which was that I felt that the minutes did not accurately capture what happened at the april 13 meeting.

Karen Smythe  3:59  
Okay, so what you're saying is that those two should be flipped, all right. So we'll table this one as well.

Melkorka Kjarval  4:07  
Anything else?

Frances Uku  4:09  
Not from me.

Karen Smythe  4:12  
Anybody

Perry Allen  4:14  
else? Double checking now. But

Frances Uku  4:16  
should I make the motion to table? Okay. So moved.

Craig Rothstein  4:21  
Second.

Frances Uku  4:22  
Thank you.

Karen Smythe  4:22  
All in favor. Next would be the acceptance of the agenda. Everybody okay with the agenda? I'll just make the note that the hardscrabble event permit that may move down a bit. Amy is here to just go over the details, if, if needed. She's upstairs at a meeting, so whenever she comes down, where we'll put that. So, just from an order standpoint, that may be later.

okay, then I'll take a motion to accept the agenda.

Frances Uku  5:23  
Sorry, just one quick question. You

Speaker 1  5:25  
had

Frances Uku  5:25  
brought up in the email

Perry Allen  5:26  
I had a discussion of the lighting project,

Karen Smythe  5:31  
right, which I assumed I assumed you meant the school speed zone, because it wasn't clear what you're talking about. You want to add that?

Perry Allen  5:38  
If we could do a discussion there, that would be fantastic.

Karen Smythe  5:41  
We'll put it after the school speed zone.

Speaker 1  5:43  
Yes,

Perry Allen  5:48  
but I appreciated your email about that.

Karen Smythe  5:52  
Okay, with the addition of school lighting, motion to accept the agenda.

Craig Rothstein  6:00  
So moved.

Karen Smythe  6:01  
Thank you. Second,

Perry Allen  6:02  
second.

Karen Smythe  6:02  
All in favor,

Frances Uku  6:03  
aye.

Karen Smythe  6:04  
Great. Next item we have is public comment. Someone from the public here to comment.

Someone from the public here to comment.

Robert McKeon  6:10  
Hello,

Frances Uku  6:10  
hello, hello,

Robert McKeon  6:12  
and thank you. Just a couple minutes of your time, because I know you have a long agenda, but I did want to be at least somewhat responsive to your letter regarding community preservation fund, and I thought I'm

Karen Smythe  6:24  
just going to share with the board, as I had indicated, I attended the town board meeting, and I gave the letter,

Robert McKeon  6:32  
so just for background, and I thought I would bring with me some maps, and I apologize, the comprehensive map should be updated, but I gave you both the town preservation projects and the ones I highlighted, zoomed in from the DLC map, the ones that are village gateways and village proper. So, in the case of the village of Red Hook, you'll see the Cookingham property is both village proper and village gateway. Some of the projects that were listed in the community preservation fund. I also put our code for community preservation, because I know I think all of you have moved here since we adopted this back in 2007 I think. So, anyway, so just because it has provisions in here that I think are important to look at when it comes to things like composition of the advisory committee, there's a set requirement that it must be a majority of folks who are who have land preservation experience must be the majority composition of the board, and there must be at least one active farmer. And then I have one also for the clerk. Thank you very much. So you can see from the maps, and I will get you $1 figures, because I think your concern and your suggestion to institute that recommendation, which came from about a decade ago, one of the iterations of the plan to have an MOU. There's sort of a good news, bad news with my visit today. The good news is you're getting more than a 10 or 20% representation, both in terms of having village representatives on the advisory committee, and also the dollars expended out of the total fund. You're getting more than that, 10 and 20% and I'll try to get you an updated figure once we sell the Cookingham West Farm, because some money may return to community preservation, but it's more than those two figures over the course of, and I think your letter said 10 years, it's been 19 years since it's been in place. You've had a village trustee be part of the advisory board, at least one village trustee for I think the almost the entire term, with the exception of the,

Melkorka Kjarval  9:03  
and Charlie never attended a meeting, so

Robert McKeon  9:05  
yeah, understood. We can't control who attends the meeting,

Melkorka Kjarval  9:10  
he wasn't told when they were held, that's one of the reasons,

Karen Smythe  9:14  
not just there. How many, how many meetings there were?

Melkorka Kjarval  9:16  
I just want to make it clear, it's been several years.

Robert McKeon  9:20  
Okay. Well, you should talk to the chair of the CPF, because I know that she does distribute those notices of the meetings to everyone, so,

Melkorka Kjarval  9:30  
but not the public, just some other committee members,

Robert McKeon  9:33  
right? But I'm saying Charlie should have been informed of, informed of

Melkorka Kjarval  9:38  
usually asking to observe as not, was not able to happen because it was not shared with the public, just for the record.

Robert McKeon  9:46  
Okay, I don't know. They meet only on an as needed basis, just so you know, it's not a regular meeting that they have. And I think the minutes are now available on the website for a couple that meetings that were not available. So take a look at that as well, so we've had at least one village trustee, and oftentimes two village trustees. In fact, the comprehensive rewrite of the community preservation plan was conducted during the time where Tivoli Village Trustee Susan Ezrati chaired the CPF board, and so there was a very extensive process there. Sometimes we have just a minor addition to the plan. Sometimes they look at the whole plan itself, and they did during this period. They included hundreds of parcels for water preservation, water resource preservation, so they went through all the town parcels and all the documents that supported water resources and included many of them into the plan. The five that are now being contemplated to be included were not included because it was assumed that the town already owned them. The town owns them in custodial form on behalf of the water district, and so therefore that mistake, if we want to call it that, it was, it was not included in the plan, because it was already thought to be home.

Karen Smythe  11:14  
If the town owns them

Speaker 1  11:16  
on behalf

Craig Rothstein  11:16  
of the water

Karen Smythe  11:17  
district, half the water district, because the question is, can the water district own land, but if the town owns them, then how is the town buying it and giving funds to the water fund? That doesn't seem like it fits. It

Robert McKeon  11:32  
does fit, because they're not the same, the same entity. So, the water district is the 488 users, and the town is the town as a whole, right. So the community preservation fund can be used, and you see in the uses there's a description of all the uses, eligible uses, which is one thing I would highlight to take a look at, because I've heard some things not only from your board but from my board about projects out there, and some of those comments relate to projects that the CPF is not eligible for. So, just know that there are specific uses defined within the statute, so the town, yes, can buy and preserve those parcels. They are not preserved now, they're owned by the water district. They're surplus, much like your highway department might have a surplus vehicle that it wants to dispense with. The water district used to own those parcels because wells were on those parcels. They are no longer for that use and can be for that use. So they have decided, or decided, actually, a few years ago, they would like to sell those properties in order for us to use CPF funds. They need to be included in the plan, and that's the process we're going through now.

Melkorka Kjarval  12:55  
So, they're not included currently.

Robert McKeon  12:56  
They're not included currently, because as the planner who worked on this for all the iterations, said, "Oh gosh, we thought the town already owned these, but they're owned on behalf

Melkorka Kjarval  13:09  
going to be paid for by the CPF fund, and you are going to fund anyway.

Karen Smythe  13:16  
Well, there's no delayed maintenance on the parcels,

Melkorka Kjarval  13:19  
no, but that is, yes, to the, their, their water district, right,

Robert McKeon  13:23  
to the water district, and this will help preserve it, preserve the water resources. It can be used as passive recreational. They're not all wetlands, in fact, they're federal wetlands, and I think I don't need to tell you just what's going on right now with fresh water wetland protection, right there was that whole state redo of the regulations, and that was challenged, and appellate court on april 8, I think, of this year, overturned those regulations. If you can believe it or not, DEC used to short form for those new regulations, and that was one of the reasons that the appellate court determined that they did not take their work, was at hard luck at it. So, right now it's really unclear what protections are in place, but these were never designated as state regulated wetlands. There's lots of dry portion to these parcels, but they do border a connected waterway resource that goes into the Salk Hill, so they clearly meet the criteria. But more to your point, are you getting representation? There's always been village trustees that have been previously on the board, certainly, we'd like to continue that if we can, to make sure that you know you're fully connected.

Karen Smythe  14:48  
To ask a question about that, when you say village, are you meaning either one of the other, or

Robert McKeon  14:52  
both? It would be ideal to have both, but know that we have a very strict constraint. We have to have the majority of the members, which is why Charlie Lang is still a holdover. We have to have a majority of the members have a land conservation background, and one member, at least one member, must be an active farmer. So we must meet that criteria, and then we can fill the other spots in, and we typically like to have had one village trustee and a village trustee from the other village to fill those spots to the point, though we'd love to have village projects before many of your time, and before Mel Cork, you owned your house. Some of the landowners surrounding the pond had asked about whether or not we could use funds for that pond, because they thought something needed on, and we expressed a willingness to entertain, you know, a project application related to that, recognizing that there are, I think, seven private landowners there that we need to join in that own portions,

Karen Smythe  16:00  
depending on where you,

Robert McKeon  16:01  
I may have my numbers wrong on that. It's

Karen Smythe  16:03  
been many years. It depends on what

Frances Uku  16:05  
frontage,

Karen Smythe  16:06  
what edge of how high the pond

Speaker 1  16:11  
is

Robert McKeon  16:12  
or low. But do know that the funds are used for acquisition. You are allowed to have 10% for maintenance and stewardship, but the funds are used for acquisition, so we couldn't say you put in an application, say this is a historic building, we need $200,000 to redo the roof, we couldn't use CPF funds for that, because it's for acquisition and management and stewardship,

Melkorka Kjarval  16:37  
but as of now, there is no MOU, there's no agreement, there is not. We, you know, how we apply for projects, how we put forth forward projects. There is no,

Robert McKeon  16:48  
there needs not be an MOU for you to put forward a project. The town has hang on a sec. There has not been an application from the village that I know of that has been denied in the 19 years. Put together, we encourage you to put together applications. Difficult

Melkorka Kjarval  17:06  
if you can't actually attend a meeting because they're not public.

Karen Smythe  17:11  
But I would also add that we should have an MOU, because it's at this point my understanding is if the CPF acquires a piece of property in the village, it remains town property, and I think there's that, that's something that should be addressed, because if it's something acquired in the village, it should become part of the village and not own, should be owned by the village and not owned by the town, for example.

Robert McKeon  17:36  
Well, I'm not sure I necessarily agree with you on that, you own property in the township. You have your wells in the township. We would never ask you to sell

Karen Smythe  17:49  
that to we. If we then propose a project, what we're proposing is for the town to buy and own a piece of property in the village. That doesn't seem to..

Robert McKeon  17:58  
no, no, no, no, no. That doesn't. I'm not saying that it precludes us from doing that. The acquisition we could do, in fact, as you know, without an application, we have thought about your needs as a village as well, which is why we carved out a piece of property on Cooking Hand, because you all had expressed that you might need to drill a future well, and there was testing near to that location that seemed to indicate a very good spot. So, when we delineated those lands, we made sure to reserve that for you for future

Karen Smythe  18:36  
years. In the process of turning that property over to the village,

Robert McKeon  18:40  
not

Karen Smythe  18:43  
yet. So, what mechanism to do that, or to determine in what situation it would make sense? Well,

Robert McKeon  18:49  
certainly we can,

Karen Smythe  18:49  
because right now the village has no say, and we're not - we

Melkorka Kjarval  18:52  
have no way to attend the meetings, they're not public. We have to wait until you decide that. Well, hang on, hang on a clinical interest to

Robert McKeon  19:00  
hang on a second, to say that they're not public, they're held at town hall, and if there, if there's any issue with notice that hasn't been happening, I will, I will look into that and make sure that that is happening. I will make sure that that is happening. Okay, I

Melkorka Kjarval  19:17  
mean, I, you, I've been on threads with you asking to attend meetings,

Robert McKeon  19:22  
I don't

Melkorka Kjarval  19:23  
believe that it was.

Robert McKeon  19:24  
I don't believe they've had no,

Melkorka Kjarval  19:25  
they didn't have a meeting, but no one expressed that to me, that they had not had meetings. No, there was no

Robert McKeon  19:31  
again. I

Karen Smythe  19:31  
response.

Robert McKeon  19:32  
Yeah, so if the chair did not respond to you, I will apologize on behalf of the chair not responding to you, but I don't follow all the threads to know whether or not you've connected. I had thought in my conversation with Mary Ann that she had connected with you at some point, perhaps she had not. Is that the case?

Speaker 1  19:54  
She was not. She

Melkorka Kjarval  19:54  
finally did, but what I am saying is I had asked for months and months to attend a meeting, and I was never.. I did not receive any communication.

Robert McKeon  20:04  
Well, that's good for me to get that feedback that the chair of that advisory board is not being responsive to your questions.

Karen Smythe  20:12  
So, thank you for coming. I think we all have an opportunity to learn more about the Community Preservation Fund.

Speaker 1  20:18  
Feel

Robert McKeon  20:19  
free to

Karen Smythe  20:19  
think we will pick

Robert McKeon  20:20  
up the phone, shoot an email, any follow-up questions,

Karen Smythe  20:23  
get back to you. Perspective, and Charlie Line, I mean, I'll check in with him, but he's listed as an architect on your website, which he obviously is not.

Robert McKeon  20:33  
So that was a typo. So I think, as I explained to you, somebody did

Karen Smythe  20:38  
Charlie in there,

Robert McKeon  20:39  
exactly. So I think we've corrected that since I'll make sure before tomorrow night,

Karen Smythe  20:44  
and it sounds as though no one on the village board currently would qualify for you to appoint them to the board.

Robert McKeon  20:51  
Our issue is we need to make sure the majority still has land conservation and at least one active farmer, and then we can fill in those other two spots, because I think it's seven on the board or something.

Karen Smythe  21:05  
So we would, we would appreciate the opportunity to have a village trustee on your board at whatever point you

Robert McKeon  21:10  
and

Karen Smythe  21:11  
determine that we

Robert McKeon  21:13  
would like that. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for your time.

Frances Uku  21:18  
Thank you for coming up, Minister.

Karen Smythe  21:20

Next, the first item on the agenda is election expenses. I believe it is required for the clerk to make a report to the Board of Election Expenses. You will also have seen in the, in the vouchers that they're the election inspectors. Actually, we haven't paid them yet. I kept waiting for that to show up, and then I'm like, "Wait, why haven't we must have paid them something anyway? So it got a little bit lost in the, in the piles, but this is a summary of the expenses for the general elections from march 18. I don't believe we have to accept them. Did Jen tell you? I think this is just this is just a report. Okay, the next item, this is what I put on your, so Craig, it's going to be in the pile in front of you. This is a resolution to use USDA short-term asset reserve fund funds, for we had, so, okay, pieces, um back in April we had a water emergency, as I believe I shared with all of you, and it's in the resolution. So it was april 20. It was a low-level alarm, and in our two water towers, which are over by the water treatment plant, there's a. there's a float that basically is there to trigger an alarm when it gets to a certain lowness. I think there's a high level too, but there's a low level, and it hit that, and so when, when the team went to take a look, what that meant was the wells were not producing enough water to keep up with the demand, so more was going out than was coming in, Jake, and that was really primarily Jake checked the system, realized that there were the wells were not producing, and he identified which wells he called around Smith Well Drilling, who's actually done a fair amount of work for us for our wells, they were the ones who were able to respond to the emergency request. What they do is they, in order to look at the pump, you actually have to open the well and lift the whole thing out, and some are 30 feet down and some are a lot farther down. So it's a particular type of equipment you have to have to pull it up. So they pulled up well 12, which had been identified as a problem, and they discovered a hole in at the connection of the pipe, they tried to replace the pipe, thinking maybe that would do the trick. It did not, and so they were able to purchase a pump. There's a pump and a motor, it all comes together, but it's built separately, which is all very confusing, but learning along the way, and, and just, you know, I was in the mix on all of this, and, and so they were able to put in a new pump and motor that same day, and, and that actually ended up fixing the immediate issue. It's more to that story, but I, if you want, I can go into it, but the point is Smith, well drilling, so these are the two invoices, which I did not make copies of, but for you guys to take a look at, and so what I'm proposing is, so the USDA reserve, that the it should officially be called the USDA Short Term Asset Reserve Fund, it is set up for and short term assets as defined by the USDA. Let me look at what

This is a resolution to use USDA short-term asset reserve fund funds, for we had, so, okay, pieces, um back in April we had a water emergency, as I believe I shared with all of you, and it's in the resolution. So it was april 20. It was a low-level alarm, and in our two water towers, which are over by the water treatment plant, there's a. there's a float that basically is there to trigger an alarm when it gets to a certain lowness. I think there's a high level too, but there's a low level, and it hit that, and so when, when the team went to take a look, what that meant was the wells were not producing enough water to keep up with the demand, so more was going out than was coming in, Jake, and that was really primarily Jake checked the system, realized that there were the wells were not producing, and he identified which wells he called around Smith Well Drilling, who's actually done a fair amount of work for us for our wells, they were the ones who were able to respond to the emergency request. What they do is they, in order to look at the pump, you actually have to open the well and lift the whole thing out, and some are 30 feet down and some are a lot farther down. So it's a particular type of equipment you have to have to pull it up. So they pulled up well 12, which had been identified as a problem, and they discovered a hole in at the connection of the pipe, they tried to replace the pipe, thinking maybe that would do the trick. It did not, and so they were able to purchase a pump. There's a pump and a motor, it all comes together, but it's built separately, which is all very confusing, but learning along the way, and, and just, you know, I was in the mix on all of this, and, and so they were able to put in a new pump and motor that same day, and, and that actually ended up fixing the immediate issue. It's more to that story, but I, if you want, I can go into it, but the point is Smith, well drilling, so these are the two invoices, which I did not make copies of, but for you guys to take a look at, and so what I'm proposing is, so the USDA reserve, that the it should officially be called the USDA Short Term Asset Reserve Fund, it is set up for and short term assets as defined by the USDA. Let me look at what

Melkorka Kjarval  25:11  
replaced regulars

Karen Smythe  25:12  
should be reserved to replace repair components of the facility with which is being financed, which we did well work. This is phase one on the in the water and the water budget, you see, we we have quite a few years left to pay that off, which have a useful life significantly less than the repayment period of the loan, and so pumps, pumps and motors in the well qualify as a short term asset, short lived asset that they seem to interchange short-lived and short term,

Melkorka Kjarval  25:44  
and the idea is that you are not supposed to defer maintenance, you are supposed to, they want to encourage you to keep doing maintenance, so that you don't get huge bills, which you're trying to use your slush fund for.

Karen Smythe  25:55  
Yes, exactly. And, and going back to, you know, Fran, your point on the, on the sewer, the goal is to have to have this reserve fund build up over time. I believe this fund started in about 2013 We currently have the 151,005 70 is from the may 11, so it's probably a little higher than that, because we probably have a little bit of interest, but it's not less than that, and so what I am, the way to authorize the using and the transfer of that of those months funds into the waterfront to pay for these bills is a resolution to the board, so that is that is what you have here, and effectively it says approves the use of the funds from the USDA short term asset reserve fund to pay for these expenses and directs the treasurer to transfer the specific amount to pay the invoices. Questions, comments, thoughts?

Frances Uku  27:02  
Thank make

Perry Allen  27:05  
sense to me.

Frances Uku  27:06  
When are these due?

Karen Smythe  27:11  
Whatever it says on there, I mean, these are these are from work. That's

Melkorka Kjarval  27:16  
how I feel.

Karen Smythe  27:18  
Work from april 20, so one bill we got more recently, but they, you know, they're working their way towards being being due.

Frances Uku  27:30  
No, I'm sure everything is fine. I just.. I just haven't had a chance to look at this. It's. I, when their numbers involved, just for my peace of mind, I like to have had a chance to just look through, but yeah, it's if nothing else, it underscores what you were saying before about my position about the emergency reserves for sewer and why they're needed,

Karen Smythe  27:56  
and I don't think anyone disagrees with you, I'm just pointing out the fact that you know it took us 13 years to get 251,000 so it's not something that happens overnight, and it will take us some time to get there on the sewer. It's certainly a needed thing to do, but that's also why we, I mean, we also have one, because the USDA required it, which is why they require it, and, and so this is this is exactly what that reserve is for, and it's less, it's just shy of $5,000

Frances Uku  28:25  
Yeah, the issue is not how that we have this that has been building the issues that you have to build one so

Karen Smythe  28:32  
well, that's for sewer,

Frances Uku  28:33  
that's what I mean,

Karen Smythe  28:34  
sewer. This is this is water here, I

Frances Uku  28:37  
know, but you just, you brought it up, so I was just addressing, you

Karen Smythe  28:39  
have to build one, you bet,

Frances Uku  28:41  
yeah, yeah. This is, this is okay. I just, just in future, it would be really great.

Karen Smythe  28:46  
I, it was my full intention to do that. I thought initially that it, I didn't understand the type of reserve fund

Frances Uku  28:56  
it was,

Karen Smythe  28:56  
and so I had, I had spoken with our attorney, and he said, because it was an emergency week, because for some reserve funds you have to, you have to don't know if you have to have a public hearing, but you definitely have to wait 30 days, and he indicated because it's an emergency, you don't have to wait the 30 days, but then when I did more, when I looked into it further as to what the USDA reserve fund was for, it's specifically for short-lived assets, and we don't actually have to go through that same process, so that's why, so the initial resolution that I had written is not relevant to this reserve fund, so I rewrote it, so that's why you didn't get it in advance.

Frances Uku  29:38  
Got it? Yes, it's just because we had, we had discussed having, you know, whether, as in Perry's resolution here, like summary goal, or who the like, it just would you just explain now, but it would have helped me to understand you and on council had

Karen Smythe  29:59  
you are correct. Well, I'm not sure I would have, I'm not sure I would have put that in. I did not put a this is what this is about, personally.

Frances Uku  30:05  
I mean, if you guys personally, I feel like with a well-written resolution that the summary is like you can read the resolution, you know, but just

Perry Allen  30:15  
believe about that.

Frances Uku  30:16  
Yeah, so it was more just kind of being able to see who, who am I talking, so as you just explained, now I know I'm talking to you slash council, like it's kind of a joint project that you have presented here. No, this is fine. I just wish we should just get that sewer going. It's the sewer reserves. Yeah, I'm fine.

Karen Smythe  30:41  
Okay, anybody else have questions? Then I will.. I do need the bill. I do need the invoice. Sorry,

Frances Uku  30:50  
you should probably have

Melkorka Kjarval  30:53  
what resolution numbers do we know? This we do for

Speaker 1  30:59  
articles.

Karen Smythe  30:59  
So I will take a motion to approve this resolution. So moved. Thank you, Mel Clarke. Second.

Perry Allen  31:06  
Second.

Karen Smythe  31:07  
Thank you, Perry. Any further discussion? Let me do.. I'll do a roll call. Craig,

Craig Rothstein  31:15  
aye.

Karen Smythe  31:17  
Mel Corco, aye. Perry,

Craig Rothstein  31:19  
aye.

Karen Smythe  31:20  
Fran,

Speaker 1  31:20  
aye.

Karen Smythe  31:21  
And I'm an eye. Also, okay. Terrific. Thank you.

Okay, this is the Public Spaces Committee. This is literally to. this is my appointment, and your approval of that appointment of members to committee. I did realize that when I did this, Perry, everybody's a two-year term, which just means that everybody will be off officially at the same time. We can make an adjustment down the road that maybe at some point we can extend half to another year or

Speaker 1  32:06  
something, so

Perry Allen  32:06  
it's that'd be nice to have. We certainly want someone to roll over.

Karen Smythe  32:10  
I don't, yeah, given that this goes through April of 2028 I don't think we need to make that adjustment now, but we can make an adjustment down the road.

Perry Allen  32:16  
Yep, see how much we fatigue

Karen Smythe  32:18  
exactly,

Karen Smythe  32:20  
and this is a formal appointment, but it doesn't mean that people can't resign and appoint new people along the way. But this just makes these folks official, and I wasn't sure if I was looking it up. I wasn't sure if that I'm ex officio anyway on the committees, or whether or not I need to be an official member. So I wrote myself down here for boards and commissions. I am ex officio, but it doesn't say anything about committee, so my name is on here.

Perry Allen  32:49  
Yeah, it felt as though you've been a part of

Karen Smythe  32:53  
the as well. Yeah,

Perry Allen  32:56  
for sure.

Karen Smythe  32:57  
So that's literally what this is. So this will be 25

Melkorka Kjarval  33:01  
I just have a question about, yeah, sorry. Sorry.

Frances Uku  33:03  
No, no, no. Please know

Melkorka Kjarval  33:04  
that you were committee chair.

Perry Allen  33:07  
Yeah, no, definitely.

Melkorka Kjarval  33:09  
Yeah, so that can be a little bit awkward when you are liaison as well, because you kind of, yeah, you kind of want to let the committee be its own organism, because they're supposed to give stuff to us, but I'm just wondering what your rationalization, what you're hoping to, you know,

Karen Smythe  33:24  
so let me jump in there, because I asked him if he would be the chair,

Melkorka Kjarval  33:27  
okay,

Karen Smythe  33:28  
because the prior chair was Ash, and Ash specifically asked not to be chair, okay, yeah, and honestly, nobody else stepped up, I would say the logical person would be Betsy, but she doesn't want to be chair, so and I don't want to speak for you in terms of his involvement, but for this particular committee it felt like this was the logical way to have a chair, because the folks actually on this list are all engaged, but I don't think anybody wants to be chair.

Perry Allen  34:02  
I definitely agree with that. I don't think anybody would like to, but I have also been very open at every meeting to say that that's not how it's supposed to go

Melkorka Kjarval  34:10  
in that way. The chair, chair, and it's not a big

Frances Uku  34:13  
uncomfortable

Perry Allen  34:14  
interim chair. In no way do I am I trying to hold on to that. I love being offered it, because I was like, all right, I love public spaces, but I appreciate that that's not fully above board, or however you want.

Melkorka Kjarval  34:26  
I think it's above..

Perry Allen  34:29  
I don't

Perry Allen  34:29  
mean that. Sorry, that's too casual on the record.

Melkorka Kjarval  34:32  
It gives you another hat to wear instead of being able to just like receive information. It's another thing you have to manage.

Frances Uku  34:38  
Yeah, and I think also to the point.. I mean, I don't know if this is the point you're making, but it's where I'm jumping on, is like also an oversight perspective, like I don't know what the public spaces specific, the idea would be if they're, if they had projects that they wanted to bring to the board for funding, say, for instance, like Village Green, you know, if you are the liaison to us, but you are also the chair.

Perry Allen  35:02  
Is there a conflict of interest? To be

Karen Smythe  35:06  
honest, I don't see that as a conflict, because he can't - he's only one vote,

Frances Uku  35:10  
but still

Karen Smythe  35:10  
in this piece. And frankly, I would hope that anything that's brought to the board, that the chair and the liaison, whether they're two separate people or the same, would be supportive of it. I would

Frances Uku  35:21  
sure

Karen Smythe  35:22  
be looking for a committee not to be sort of all combined. I will also say that in the meetings that I've been at, Harry, Harry definitely runs the meeting very openly, and and is supportive, and half half the work of the chair is making sure that people know when the meeting is, that everybody gets together, that you know, information

Karen Smythe  35:44  
is

Perry Allen  35:47  
shared. I'm certainly happy to take on the work of it.

Speaker 1  35:50  
Yeah,

Perry Allen  35:50  
I respect the concern for that conflict. I appreciate. I really don't want to take control of the committee in that way, so I very much am trying to let the committee steer itself and just chair only to the point of just bring get the agenda written, it's full of really brilliant people.

Speaker 1  36:11  
Yeah,

Perry Allen  36:12  
but if there's if there's something that makes everyone feel comfortable,

Frances Uku  36:17  
it's no, it's a board, it's a board committee, so we can decide,

Karen Smythe  36:20  
over many years, it has often been the village liaison who's been the chair, that is not, it's not a new thing, it is, it is often the way it has worked in the past, and I think it's a, it's a goal to see if someone else is willing to be chair, but as we know, it's not always easy to find, so I don't think worth its work, I don't think,

Perry Allen  36:40  
yeah, that's how everyone sees it. It is. I will, I can at least commit to at meetings constantly reminding the crew that if anyone is willing to step up or has the time, we could consider it as a conversation.

Karen Smythe  36:56  
I will tell you that in my experience, that's usually when you identify someone who shows up a lot and does a lot of work, which is why Betsy would be logical, but is you pull them aside and say, "Hey, do you want to be chair?

Perry Allen  37:06  
Could you do this?

Karen Smythe  37:07  
Yeah, rather than in the whole group, most people don't raise their hands in that situation.

Perry Allen  37:13  
Articus,

Karen Smythe  37:14  
yes, exactly. So, so the question then is, do we want to, I mean, the committee chair piece, we can have that be for one year.

Melkorka Kjarval  37:25  
No, I don't. I just had the question, that's all. It's just you, actually.

Perry Allen  37:28  
I actually like that idea a lot. Yeah, yeah.

Karen Smythe  37:32  
All right, so board liaison and committee chair for one year term, okay? With that amendment,

Speaker 1  37:43  
this is one

Frances Uku  37:44  
of those. It's going to be one of those things where it's uncomfortable, and I have to state out at the outset that this is not anything against Karen specifically or the mayor, but if this public spaces is a board committee, that means that appointments are not the village law, specifically, has areas in which these are mayoral appointments, subject to board approval, which is planning and zoning board of appeals, but for everything else it's, it's the board, all these other committees,

Karen Smythe  38:14  
I'm not, I'm not sure I agree with you, but

Frances Uku  38:17  
that's what village law is, it's one thing if we decide that we

Karen Smythe  38:20  
want to make our, but I think, and I meant to print out the resolution that created the committee.

Frances Uku  38:28  
Okay, yeah,

Karen Smythe  38:30  
and I mean, I think it is - it's not just planning and zoning, there are other appointed positions, are all appointed by the mayor and approved by the board,

Frances Uku  38:38  
not village ones, that those two are literally

Karen Smythe  38:42  
clerk, the deputy clerk, yeah,

Frances Uku  38:43  
those are employed, that's staff, of

Karen Smythe  38:45  
course, those are appointed positions,

Frances Uku  38:47  
staff, not not board, this is us, this committees are board things, the staff is very different, that's all you operations, that's all mayor, as well as planning board and zoning board of appeals,

Karen Smythe  38:59  
might I suggest that we proceed with this, we can amend the, we can amend the language, should we determine that we didn't set it up this way at a future time, rather than determining that right now, because we've got a lot of things on the agenda.

Frances Uku  39:11  
It's up to you guys.

Karen Smythe  39:14  
Would someone like to make a motion to approve the resolution with the amendment of Perry being committee chair for one year?

Craig Rothstein  39:20  
So moved.

Karen Smythe  39:21  
Thank you. Second,

Perry Allen  39:29  
I think the committee would really like to move forward with this, so I would

Melkorka Kjarval  39:38  
like to give you the chance. It's your committee,

Perry Allen  39:40  
all

Karen Smythe  39:41  
right. So, we'll go around the room. Fran, yeah. Okay. Perry, aye. Mel Cork, oh, Greg. Okay, all right. Next item. Okay, so the next item is the hardscrabble permit application, which we're going to push to later.

Okay, so the next item is the hardscrabble permit application, which we're going to push to later.

Frances Uku  40:00  
Can we just quickly have a discussion about that, just because I know you said Amy is coming, and that's specifically about this, but I just have a this is the first time that I'm seeing a lot of this language in this permit contract. Who is the author? Has it been by council? How, like, this is just not prior to this particular event permit contract, I've never seen amplified music permit, and the schematic here for the map, the site map,

Karen Smythe  40:33  
so I can't speak to your experience. The application itself hasn't changed. but it was a joint effort. Actually, Amy Mil Clarke and I put it together. It does have the contract piece, is is attorney generated, the insurance piece is is with advice from the attorney, the idea behind the idea behind this, so the goal is ultimately to have to amend our code to require an event permit for any event. We have not made that amendment, we have not made that amendment to the code yet. Part of what we did initially was to say, well, how does this work? So, let's sort of work it, work it through, but the other thing that's really important, because a parade is different than a hardscrabble, that's different than, I don't know, that the Halloween parade, I mean, that they're different, they're different events, and they all sort of fall differently, and we wanted to make sure that we had an application that worked for all of those, and the it was also very important to have the indemnification and the insurance for the village, so that section really is the most important section, and that is that is from attorneys and insurance,

Melkorka Kjarval  42:01  
but also like the permit, as you do, you mind me, go ahead, the permit, as you go through it with the applicant, is like you're setting expectations for both sides, and that's sort of like it's a big deal as you go through, and often the application process takes a while, because you'll have the organization go back and forth about what they want, and then whether or not it costs money on our end, right? Like, because that will be like with a parade, it's a lot of money to have all the police officers and all the highway guys,

Frances Uku  42:30  
money, you know,

Melkorka Kjarval  42:31  
all standing, blocking things off, and the same thing with when the library had that

Frances Uku  42:37  
bike,

Melkorka Kjarval  42:38  
the bike thing, that was, that was a lot for the village to contribute to in our budget, not that it

Karen Smythe  42:42  
wasn't,

Melkorka Kjarval  42:43  
wasn't a great event, but having those kinds of things where you're actually going through and explaining this stuff, and we had, like, this has been refined over two years, going through lots of different application and event things, and it usually is a really helpful, like having someone that has come in and not done an event before. They don't even know what questions they need to ask. They don't even know what the costs are, or what the risks are, you know? Like, so it's sort of like this way of making it a little bit.. I don't know.

Frances Uku  43:17  
No, I fully understand the purpose of the.. and the,

Karen Smythe  43:20  
yeah,

Frances Uku  43:21  
no, no, that's that's clear. Thank you for me for speaking to that. My only, my only question is, is about this. Is a board document, because it's approving potential events. This is a permit application, and so, like you just said, so DPW, and all the, it's, it's taxpayer money that would be going towards facilitating this event, but the process of how these meetings that you're talking about, the communications, and even on the village website, the events committee, the permit review is not open to the public.

Melkorka Kjarval  43:56  
No, because you're talking about risks for the organization, you're talking about risks for the village, and there's no money being exchanged. It's just like them proposing what they want to do, and then that's brought to the board once it's actually like a proposal. This is like, we can say, okay, we don't want to do this xyz. We can not approve parts of it. We can say, you know, that's, but you're asking an organization to kind of like it's a question thing,

Karen Smythe  44:24  
because, and it depends.

Frances Uku  44:25  
I mean, maybe because it goes back to how this, how the, how the application was put together, or how the, that's that's maybe, but sorry.

Karen Smythe  44:34  
Well, in my experience, so for example, when Beckham Pride did did the parade two years ago,

Speaker 1  44:40  
the

Karen Smythe  44:40  
process of going through the application, it helped them because there were a variety of things they hadn't thought about yet, because again, if you've never done it before, you don't, you don't think about everything because you haven't experienced it, you think about the things that are obvious to you, and so that's the initial meeting going through, you know, do you want this, are you going to do that? You're going to have food vendors, and even just the distinction between a food vendor and a food truck. There you go, because food truck may need electric, would they? Might not have. Oh, I guess so. And so that's that's what that meeting is, and that's really why it's that's really why it's not open to the public, it's really, it's not, not, doesn't it's really not, it's not meant to be a public meeting, it's meant to be what is it that you want to do, a review of like, what is what is it you want to do here, and then let them actually think it, sometimes they have to think about

Frances Uku  45:36  
it, no, I get it, but also it's not clear, like even this is like not on the village website. How, how would someone - I mean, maybe put it this way - in terms of access or equity or transparency, whatever you want to call it. How would someone who didn't know someone who was already affiliated with the village, like the mayor or deputy or one of us, know that this is how I could, how I could apply for something in the village, like, and then if they did, if the process is, if it's closed, I don't, I

Speaker 1  46:08  
just

Melkorka Kjarval  46:09  
contact the events committee. I mean, we have the events committee on the website, yeah, it's, it's in the brochure, I mean, that's just, and

Karen Smythe  46:16  
the process, honestly, this is the process,

Melkorka Kjarval  46:19  
is there's in the form and the process,

Karen Smythe  46:22  
so your time, your timing is good. We'll finish this, and then, so there's a.. there are pages in front of this, and the very first one was an initial interest, and it's literally your name, the name of your event, the date you want it. I'm interested in this, because if someone says, I want to do something on september 17 or 19th, we're going to say no, actually you can't, because there's already an event there, so it'll be very quick. You can't do that, and that if that, if that form isn't on the website under the events section, we can make sure it gets added. I mean, this has been an iterative process, you know. Three years ago, this process didn't happen,

Speaker 1  47:03  
so a

Melkorka Kjarval  47:03  
lot of misunderstandings that happened, and they have like kind

Karen Smythe  47:06  
of an

Karen Smythe  47:06  
expect and expectations

Melkorka Kjarval  47:08  
that feelings of organization, so that the idea is to make it seamless, and the idea is to make it equitable and accessible to everybody, like we share that goal, and if there are there are things we can improve,

Frances Uku  47:20  
no, and it's not, of course, there are things always, but that was not, that's not where I was going. I was just, I just meant, in terms of all of the, of the language, the cat, like, I don't, this is just me as one individual member of the board, I don't feel I have had any insight into the process, it's very, it's clearly a lot of work has gone into it, but if I am being asked to, if I'm being asked to, to examine a proposed to evaluate a proposal, this is a board, a board contract, or board, what's this permit, however we put it, like just taking the event itself out of the way, like, is this what was presented, say, to the youth who are having

Melkorka Kjarval  48:08  
the same, okay, for like three or four years. It was done by the events committee,

Frances Uku  48:11  
okay?

Amy Smith   48:15  
We've been working

Melkorka Kjarval  48:16  
on it for a long time.

Amy Smith   48:17  
We worked, yeah, and I did,

Speaker 1  48:19  
yeah,

Amy Smith   48:19  
like I'm sorry.

Karen Smythe  48:20  
I mean, our intention was to have had it in the code by now, and honestly, you know, everything else comes in the way, and we just haven't gotten there because it's a law. We would have to, we would have to pass the law, and we just haven't done that yet. Is

Frances Uku  48:34  
that something anyone would be, because this is this, I mean, literally, this time last year, this was also the, you know, we mean to pass the law, and is there any, is there some interest in moving forward on, on that? Could we start to talk like this is a workshop, there's upcoming workshops, is that something that is,

Karen Smythe  48:56  
it a, I mean, I think really, I think really, at this point the law will be relatively simple, because it will merely just say that, you know, here's, here's the definition of an event, and you need to have a permit and follow the process, that, that's, you know, what, because we don't want too many specifics in the law, because when we change something, you know, something that might change, like this application, we can change it, but if we can change it simply rather than having to change the law, that's the

Melkorka Kjarval  49:26  
keeping a schedule separate, so that you can edit the schedule when you need to, like for instance, what if all of the village tables rotted away, we don't have any, you want to be able to remove that from the,

Karen Smythe  49:38  
or, of course, or if there's something that's discovered in the in the language of the contract that we want to update, or just as you know that we just don't want to say that this isn't this this particular thing is in the law. Yes, we need to go forward. There are actually a couple of other more simple changes to the code that we need to make that are certainly on my list to confer with the attorney to to put together it and and present to you all, so now that now that a large majority of the sewer issues are behind us, I have a little bit more time to to put that together and make that happen.

Frances Uku  50:20  
Do you have other questions about the permit, or do you want to? If Amy wants to present, I do have, I have questions about the host organization, but I'll let Amy present first. If Amy has,

Amy Smith   50:31  
sure. Well, this is just my volunteer role, so that's why I'm here for this. So, this is an application for hard Scrabble. It follows nearly the exact same thing as last year, and

Speaker 2  50:51  
it, yeah, festival celebration and music is its primary, primary purpose. Just to, just to jump in on the top, it actually doesn't have a start and end time. It's,

Amy Smith   51:05  
oh, it's 10am 10am to 10. Sorry, they should, yeah, that should have filled in. That is the when it's open to the public. So, just like in years past, the early part of the day, it's primarily family kid stuff. Some point in the early afternoon, it transitions to feature teen-led bands, and then the evening lineup usually starts at six or seven, depending in the past. Well, oh, wait, it depends if they have that. Yeah, there's usually a five to six break, so that people can go and frequent restaurants. Isn't

Karen Smythe  51:46  
the theory five? It's been four to five in the past, but

Amy Smith   51:49  
well, okay, it

Karen Smythe  51:50  
just doesn't matter. Yeah, sorry,

Amy Smith   51:51  
that's okay. The thing that happened at five was that guy sang the local guy, yes, saying so, like it's not a hired like the three headliners are usually 678, and there's really no one still performing at 10, except for the year that it poured frickin rain, and there was a little bit of a rain delay.

Melkorka Kjarval  52:13  
Only one who left this table has been a performer at Hard Scrabble, who, oh, you

Perry Allen  52:19  
played with Moonlighters.

Amy Smith   52:20  
Okay, there you go. So it is a concert performance. There is no parade. It is not a carnival fair, and it's not a charitable event. They, the general location is the parking lot, but last year was the first year that they worked with Jake, who in his personal life is a car enthusiast, and so they did a car show up in the Memorial Park, which was very popular, and so they'll probably do that again, so it will be the municipal lot and Memorial Park, as last year the only street that's closed is this Prince Street section right here, and yeah, there's..

Karen Smythe  53:14  
and I think just going back, one of the things that that's important, going back to the front page, because this is a public event and there are public funds being used, there needs to be a public purpose.

Amy Smith   53:25  
Yeah,

Karen Smythe  53:26  
and so that's, and these, these are the public purposes that are

Amy Smith   53:31  
in New York State Law Municipal Law villages, only allowed

Melkorka Kjarval  53:36  
to spend tax support,

Amy Smith   53:37  
least be a support financially if they meet at least one of these, so that's what the purpose of the event thing.

Karen Smythe  53:46  
Yeah, they marked a block party. I'm not sure it's really a block party.

Amy Smith   53:48  
It's not a block party. I don't know why they did that. It's festival celebration and concert performance. Perhaps he did block party, thinking of the car show, because it's.. I don't know, it's not. Oh, yeah, maybe. Yeah, anyway, it's not a block party. They, there's a core coordinators of four to five people. Volunteers day off are always needed, so members of the board are invited to volunteer. They there will be food trucks. There will be food vendors. The difference between a food vendor and a food truck. A food vendor, the food is prepared off site. It is in a commercial kitchen with a license inspection. It is packaged and it is sold as such. A food truck prepared on site. The truck has to have a board of health certificate that we, we get copies of for all of these sorts of things. So that's why we ask about both of those, because they aren't the same legally.

Karen Smythe  54:54  
There is, and I was trying to save paper when I printed this out. There is also a sheet that has, that has a space to add all your vendors. Yeah, so it's not filled out yet. The week, no, we filled out.

Speaker 1  55:05  
Yes,

Amy Smith   55:06  
I don't ask for that until a week before, because often vendors cancel, etc. And they also need to get us all of the health certificates as necessary. As in the past couple of years, there will be in the evening a cider tent. It'll sell local, local beer, local cider, and an array of non-alcoholic drinks. That is also where the food vendor comes in, because I believe it will happen again, business restaurants. are given the opportunity, if they'd like to have prepackaged things sold there, they will. So, last year, Corner Counter said yes, and Mighty Donuts said yes. And so, there are things they were food vendors. All of the tables in the lot are organizations, not vendors, so nothing is sold, and they all must have an activity. It actually was a rule I started, because it increases people's engagement with the organization if they're actually doing something, rather than just collecting all the paper off the table,

Karen Smythe  56:21  
best example of that was the VFW, and Amy insisted that they come up with an activity, and the activity they came up with was showing you how to properly

Amy Smith   56:31  
pull the flag. It was awesome.

Karen Smythe  56:33  
It was awesome, and also for me personally, because I grew up, my uncle was Lieutenant Colonel, and in the summer when we overlapped, we had a there was a flagpole, and literally every day we would take the flag down, and Uncle Bill would show us, and we had to do it right. We can't touch the ground, and that's why I know.

Amy Smith   56:51  
Yeah,

Karen Smythe  56:51  
so it was such.. it was really..

Amy Smith   56:53  
they got a lot of engagement from kids that they did not expect. They did not want to do it, and then they were like

Frances Uku  56:58  
a big

Karen Smythe  56:58  
example. Yes.

Amy Smith   56:59  
So, as far as fundraising, they don't do fundraising, they sell sponsorships in advance of the event. There's no fundraising by the organization on the lot. What does happen on the lot is, let's say the community center has a raffle basket and they're selling tickets, that's allowed, but there's no like put money in a jar, and the reason for that is that we never want it to be the perception that you have to give money to do the activity. Organizations that don't have any ideas for activities or don't have anything, they give them different kinds of yard days, outdoor activities that they can do, so the car shows on the end, the prices. Did you already talk about this? Okay, so this, the fee schedule box, these are not current, really, nor accurate, and they basically we use them to make it clear to groups coming that it costs the village something for them to have an event, and this is what the celebrations line is in the village budget, and currently there is not as much demand on it that there is a problem, but you know, ideally we're making it easier and more accessible, and in the future there may be, you know, each organization can get this much, or however, however it's worked out, but we're not at that point,

Karen Smythe  58:34  
and we have arguably legacy events like Apple Blossom and Hard Scrabble that have never been charged in the past, Memorial Day parade and Memorial Day parade sale, yeah, that are waived,

Amy Smith   58:47  
but this is basically so that people recognize the invisible costs are costs, so the village is a sponsor for any event that for which the organization is not paying for police overtime, DPW, etc. And so we appear on flyers, etc. The next part is the contract part. This is basically where we are listing out all of the things that we need from them, and there you'll see they're required to supply the vendor contact list, the rules about being on site set up breakdown. You might think that was obvious, and it's not so. And because of that, I schedule a meeting with organizations having an event one week prior to their event, so that we can reiterate. Okay, what are you doing for on set update? Okay, you want the tent and the stage that gets set up on Friday. Who's going to be there on Friday to point? Yes, this is where we want it. This is where we're not. Who's going to be there? You know, there was one memorable after awesome where I was walking my dog, and became the person who was letting vendors in onto the site because their person was late, so as long as there's, you know, an awareness, the ADA compliance, that's federal law, and so these are the components that we require, and this is a big reason why after so that first initial interest ultimately Jen is able to reply to that for the most part after that they sit down and meet with me and I explain all of the elements that are a required part of an event before we even do this, I was just upstairs doing one such meeting, and then they go away with an action item, with an action items list, and they get back to me, okay, we do want to do this, we do want to move forward, etc. I send them this, and then I am available, I answer their questions, I give them contacts, there are certain things that the village provides, no matter event parking signs, signs for that that are required by ADA. Where's the ADA accessible bathroom? I tell them what the law is for, how they have to appear, and where water, and sort of working out all of that sort of stuff. And then I explained to them the need for an ombudsman and advise them to use this form at this link, because that's the ADA form. There are lots of forms out there, but if you just use this one, very simple, and meets all the quality requirements of the law. And I advise them at the place where the drink-free drinking water is, have the forms and have the name and the contact for the person who is a designated ombudsman, that is someone from that organization that receives the complaint, so that's to make it, you know, very simple, and then this part of it is just, I mean, I give this to them at the meeting that, like, I just had, because this is the level of insurance they have to have, and it's not necessarily a level that all organizations already have, so they need to look at that, and then it's signed if the event involves a lot of amplified music. This piece is attached, and yeah, again, what's not here that people get when they get the whole thing, are there's a cover sheet with the, there's also a flow chart for sort of if-then at what point you do things, there is a, you know, because anytime you have something that's being put before the board, there is an appeal process in the event that y'all don't approve something, people need to know what their options are. There is a map that everyone gets of here. Oh, okay, it's not on mine, but yeah, and there's the vendors list, you know, as other organizations, if they need it. I was explaining how sponsorship can work to the group that I was meeting with tonight. I will be giving them examples that other organizations who have done events have used for their sponsorship offerings, Red Hook Youth Pride and Hard Scrabble are the two I'm going to send them, and I explain to them what is needed if they want to have event parking at Firehouse Plaza, or why you cannot say that volunteers can park at the Key Bank lot on a Saturday, like there is a certain amount of information that, yes, I hold here, and it is because of my experience now for a couple of years doing these things and looking into it, and that's why I volunteer, but I am everyone who applies for an event has myself, my phone blowing up all day long from the Red Hook Youth Pride, which is fine, because it's not easy to do an event, it's a lot of work, and there's a lot of details, and people want to get it right, and so to a certain extent, we will never have a single document that can encompass every possibility, we will always have to have somebody who volunteers to be the guide

Frances Uku  1:04:25  
shepherd.

Amy Smith   1:04:26  
Yep, there's no way that you know we've, we've one of the reasons that we've been using this draft thing for so long is that every single time we use it, we learn something from the first Apple Blossom that we used it with, to you know, the Red Hook Youth Pride, to the two young women tonight who are going to try and do it without being a 501 c3 they're rock stars anyway.

Karen Smythe  1:04:53  
But I'll also add one of the reasons why the, I mean, this is literally just this is this is what is, I mean, there's nothing special about this. It just highlights it's not private, what's not public property, so that they can say, well, I want, if they're going to take, they want the stage intent. Well, I want it here, we can put it here, you can put it here. I want you know,

Amy Smith   1:05:14  
I'm gonna have a food truck, so then they can see where it could be possibly,

Karen Smythe  1:05:17  
so they, yes, so they can put it down, so that it's, it's a piece of paper that I can hand, we can hand to Jake, for example, and he can say, "Oh, they can't put that there because it's too, you know, so

Karen Smythe  1:05:29  
that's heads gets on a piece, so

Amy Smith   1:05:31  
that the organization, or the members of the public, are giving us their intentions in this. This goes, you guys look at their intentions, say yes or no, and then Karen interprets this for operations, so there's certain pieces, like a parade route, we, you know, Karen, myself, and Patrick have a meeting to talk about, here's what they want, okay? And that happened at the recent one, like, well, I'd rather it went like this, and here's the safety reasons, so then I go back to the group, and I explain, here's the safety reasons, here's how many more you know employees we would have to bring in in order to do the route that you had planned, and then you know there's a certain amount of negotiation, but it's only after it's approved that it becomes an operations operable, because ultimately most of what the village's involvement is, is operations. The last thing I'll say, just sort of generally about this, is this form is the accumulated knowledge that Mel Corker and I gathered and parent by volunteering to do hard scrabble starting in 2021 five years, five years, so

Melkorka Kjarval  1:06:41  
it was everyone quit on the committee,

Amy Smith   1:06:42  
everyone quit. They all left with Ed.

Speaker 1  1:06:44  
Oh, good job, have fun.

Amy Smith   1:06:46  
And they all said, "Oh, there's a binder.

Speaker 1  1:06:49  
Yeah,

Amy Smith   1:06:49  
yeah. And then it was like, he's got it, she's got it, he's got it, she's got it. It's nowhere.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:06:53  
This originally is from the binder, though.

Amy Smith   1:06:55  
Oh, we did it. You did ultimately find, yeah. But anyway, so

Perry Allen  1:06:58  
because

Amy Smith   1:06:59  
it was such a steep learning curve, that is what motivated this, because it's like, how would anyone like, no one in their right mind do this? Yeah, so that's why this is being creative. The whole point is so that people don't have to reinvent the wheel,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:07:17  
like if we get hit by a bus,

Amy Smith   1:07:20  
if I get, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2  1:07:23  
My father's phrase. Does

Amy Smith   1:07:24  
anybody have any questions for me about it, or about the organization? Because that would be D, as their I'm their contact person.

Perry Allen  1:07:37  
I do not. I think I have to get a glass of water, but I don't have any questions.

Frances Uku  1:07:45  
Maybe, maybe you could explain a little, Amy. So, what is.. what is the village's.. does the village have a relationship with the host organization? Like, this was the host from last year.

Amy Smith   1:07:55  
Yes,

Frances Uku  1:07:55  
yes. So,

Speaker 1  1:07:57  
is

Frances Uku  1:07:57  
there.. is there a way that do we have any access to, like, reports, or you know, like how it went last year. Do we want to be doing it with..

Amy Smith   1:08:07  
we don't actually ask that from any organization. We don't ask that from the Rotary. We don't ask that. No one has to. Ultimately, one of the things that we have observed. so we observed one event that had very poor attendance, and we had been very concerned about it, because there was very little to no publicity. It prompted a change in the timeline, where we have to see your publicity, you know, you have to, it has to happen at least this far in advance, no more like short notice. The meeting I had today was about an event in the spring of 2027 so like we're really, we extended the timeline in response to that. So, no, we don't require a report, but from except for from direct observation of how things, I mean from experience, like

Karen Smythe  1:08:58  
certainly for hardscrabble, we were certainly there pretty much all day, yeah. And and it's an event that's happened many years, and it was

Amy Smith   1:09:08  
no different. I mean, the only time that it was lesser that I am aware of since I've been on the events committee was the year poured rain,

Amy Smith   1:09:17  
which

Speaker 2  1:09:18  
is just logical, and that's true for that's also true

Amy Smith   1:09:21  
for Apple Blossom, when it poured rain, this, you know, they, they have less

Speaker 2  1:09:25  
engagement, unexpected, but yeah,

Amy Smith   1:09:28  
so no, we don't ask, but we have made it more difficult by pushing back the timeline, so that, so that it's a responsible use of tax dollars, right? It's like, but the, the own, there's that's just one event that in five years that I'm aware of where that was questioned. So, no, we don't ask for reports from any of them. I don't actually think we have a right to

Karen Smythe  1:10:01  
know. I'm not nonprofits. I was gonna say it's a question of knowing the organization confirming that they're a 501 c3 yeah,

Amy Smith   1:10:09  
and that they have legitimate insurance,

Karen Smythe  1:10:11  
and that their insurance is legit. Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2  1:10:13  
that's our,

Amy Smith   1:10:13  
that's our legal, that's our legal relationship. It's the same for this one as for any other.

Frances Uku  1:10:23  
This has been very helpful. This is, I, my questions had kind of just been like the process, like you've explained how it works for someone coming, wishing to host an event, but I didn't have

Amy Smith   1:10:36  
no way. I just wasn't here, and I'm the person who, you know, whether I'm on the board or not, I'm the first, it's you know, Jen, and then me, I'm

Karen Smythe  1:10:45  
the one

Amy Smith   1:10:46  
who takes the meetings, when the mayor is available, she is also in the forum meetings, but not in the preliminary meetings, because sometimes people think, like, this is going to be so easy, it's going to be so fun, and then I explain it to them, and I express my desire to support them, and do it, and then they leave, and then they call me in like an hour, and they're like, "Holy crow, no thank you, because we make it as easy as we can, but, like, as I said to the two young women, that's like the biggest cost is your time, and that's true for all of these events. Yeah, and you know everyone loves the public events, I can tell you, nobody volunteers, by and large, absolutely nobody volunteers.

Karen Smythe  1:11:29  
It certainly wants the responsibility,

Amy Smith   1:11:30  
they don't want the responsibility. Yeah, and

Speaker 1  1:11:33  
then data

Frances Uku  1:11:33  
from cleaning,

Amy Smith   1:11:34  
exactly, that's correct, that is exactly how it works. And so what happens is that a very small number of people are pulling off something for the community, and it is very emotionally fraught when you have put hours and hours of labor, you know, not spent time with your family, etc. etc. So it's when any organization that manages to put together an event, they are sacrificing things for sure, because you know,

Karen Smythe  1:12:09  
so does anybody else have any questions specifically about hardscrabble? I'd love to ask for a motion to approve the event. I

Melkorka Kjarval  1:12:18  
mentioned just quickly that it's the 50th anniversary of the first hardscrabble, because the first hard scrabble was a bicentennial celebration,

Amy Smith   1:12:26  
1976

Melkorka Kjarval  1:12:27  
1976 and it wasn't always hosted by the village, it was hosted by the Chamber of Commerce, and then Historic Red Hook, before it was a historic Red Hook, did it for a while, and then there was the mayors of Tivoli and Red Hook worked together to do, you know, celebration of their, not the Bicentennial, but something else subsequent

Amy Smith   1:12:49  
later one. Yeah,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:12:49  
yeah. Anyway, so it's been something. The Bicentennial one is where they had the bed

Amy Smith   1:12:54  
races,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:12:55  
yeah, they had bed racing,

Amy Smith   1:12:56  
they had wheeled beds and mattresses, and there was a race,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:13:01  
I'm sure there's

Melkorka Kjarval  1:13:02  
less

Melkorka Kjarval  1:13:02  
traffic then, so yeah, I would assume

Amy Smith   1:13:06  
like a bobsled, someone's running behind,

Perry Allen  1:13:10  
if we could shut down the intersite, like a groaty event, you know, such amazing, it's really fantastic,

Karen Smythe  1:13:16  
yeah,

Amy Smith   1:13:17  
it's state highways

Karen Smythe  1:13:18  
are tricky,

Amy Smith   1:13:19  
we can close them very briefly without special permitting, for like Memorial Day parade. I'm also

Perry Allen  1:13:25  
just speaking flippantly, only to say that I love hard scrap. I think

Amy Smith   1:13:30  
it's a great, it's a great event, and let's, like, I said, anyone feels like volunteering.

Karen Smythe  1:13:35  
Yeah, so thank you for pointing that out. The fact that it's the 50th anniversary, it's, you know, it's, it's the 250th of our country, arguably. So, hopefully, hopefully historic Red Hooks does something. No, sorry, I didn't, the commas in the wrong spot. Hopefully, Historic Red Hook will be doing some sort of revolution.

Amy Smith   1:14:01  
Oh, yeah, 250 they're doing stuff with the Duchess Historical Society.

Karen Smythe  1:14:04  
There you go.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:14:05  
Black day, apparently.

Amy Smith   1:14:07  
Yeah,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:14:08  
I only know that because it was that at Red Hooked together, and it was in my report.

Karen Smythe  1:14:11  
There you go. Okay. With that, I'll take a motion to approve the hardscrabble event permit.

Perry Allen  1:14:21  
Yep.

Karen Smythe  1:14:22  
Thank you, Craig.

Perry Allen  1:14:23  
Second,

Karen Smythe  1:14:24  
thank you, Perry. All in favor, 50

Craig Rothstein  1:14:30  
years. No one in this country has ever been known to argue.

Karen Smythe  1:14:36  
Okay, next item on the agenda is the Pride flag. What we have done for the past couple of years is we as a board have authorized the flying of the Pride flag. One year we did the whole month of June. One year we did the long weekend of the Pride of the Pride parade. I kind of like the weekend of the Pride parade, which would be not this coming weekend, but the following weekend, and I think we did it Friday through Monday, I think it was put it up Friday and take it down Monday

anybody else have any questions specifically about hardscrabble? I'd love to ask for a motion to approve the event. I

Melkorka Kjarval  1:12:18  
mentioned just quickly that it's the 50th anniversary of the first hardscrabble, because the first hard scrabble was a bicentennial celebration,

Amy Smith   1:12:26  
1976

Melkorka Kjarval  1:12:27  
1976 and it wasn't always hosted by the village, it was hosted by the Chamber of Commerce, and then Historic Red Hook, before it was a historic Red Hook, did it for a while, and then there was the mayors of Tivoli and Red Hook worked together to do, you know, celebration of their, not the Bicentennial, but something else subsequent

Amy Smith   1:12:49  
later one. Yeah,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:12:49  
yeah. Anyway, so it's been something. The Bicentennial one is where they had the bed

Amy Smith   1:12:54  
races,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:12:55  
yeah, they had bed racing,

Amy Smith   1:12:56  
they had wheeled beds and mattresses, and there was a race,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:13:01  
I'm sure there's

Melkorka Kjarval  1:13:02  
less

Melkorka Kjarval  1:13:02  
traffic then, so yeah, I would assume

Amy Smith   1:13:06  
like a bobsled, someone's running behind,

Perry Allen  1:13:10  
if we could shut down the intersite, like a groaty event, you know, such amazing, it's really fantastic,

Karen Smythe  1:13:16  
yeah,

Amy Smith   1:13:17  
it's state highways

Karen Smythe  1:13:18  
are tricky,

Amy Smith   1:13:19  
we can close them very briefly without special permitting, for like Memorial Day parade. I'm also

Perry Allen  1:13:25  
just speaking flippantly, only to say that I love hard scrap. I think

Amy Smith   1:13:30  
it's a great, it's a great event, and let's, like, I said, anyone feels like volunteering.

Karen Smythe  1:13:35  
Yeah, so thank you for pointing that out. The fact that it's the 50th anniversary, it's, you know, it's, it's the 250th of our country, arguably. So, hopefully, hopefully historic Red Hooks does something. No, sorry, I didn't, the commas in the wrong spot. Hopefully, Historic Red Hook will be doing some sort of revolution.

Amy Smith   1:14:01  
Oh, yeah, 250 they're doing stuff with the Duchess Historical Society.

Karen Smythe  1:14:04  
There you go.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:14:05  
Black day, apparently.

Amy Smith   1:14:07  
Yeah,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:14:08  
I only know that because it was that at Red Hooked together, and it was in my report.

Karen Smythe  1:14:11  
There you go. Okay. With that, I'll take a motion to approve the hardscrabble event permit.

Perry Allen  1:14:21  
Yep.

Karen Smythe  1:14:22  
Thank you, Craig.

Perry Allen  1:14:23  
Second,

Karen Smythe  1:14:24  
thank you, Perry. All in favor, 50

Craig Rothstein  1:14:30  
years. No one in this country has ever been known to argue.

Karen Smythe  1:14:36  
Okay, next item on the agenda is the Pride flag. What we have done for the past couple of years is we as a board have authorized the flying of the Pride flag. One year we did the whole month of June. One year we did the long weekend of the Pride of the Pride parade. I kind of like the weekend of the Pride parade, which would be not this coming weekend, but the following weekend, and I think we did it Friday through Monday, I think it was put it up Friday and take it down Monday

Melkorka Kjarval  1:15:13  
through the eighth,

Karen Smythe  1:15:14  
yeah, and it's the, it's the flagpole back here, so nothing in the front changes that stays the way it is current. Well, currently I don't think we have any flag, but normally we're flying the Tree City USA flag up there. Were they able to repair it? Are they still? They still need, they need it. It's made to be able to be lifted out easily. It's not lifting out, so they need, they need some equipment, which I believe Dave Street Service is going to provide to actually pull it out and see what the problem is, and make it work, so you know if it all completely fails, this is a moot point, but the idea is that we would have the opportunity to, if we all agree, then it can happen, if the poll is working, it's not working, it's not working.

Perry Allen  1:16:03  
Yeah, and I certainly support it being hung for as long as, as long as we like. Yeah.

Karen Smythe  1:16:08  
Okay.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:16:09  
How long would you like?

Perry Allen  1:16:11  
So, forgive my ignorance. The whole month of June was because it's Pride month.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:16:16  
Pride

Karen Smythe  1:16:16  
month, yeah.

Perry Allen  1:16:17  
I mean, I'm open for the whole month, to be honest. That's what I would suppose personally.

Karen Smythe  1:16:26  
Okay,

Frances Uku  1:16:28  
like Craig took a bathroom break.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:16:30  
Yeah, I might actually get a water myself.

Perry Allen  1:16:38  
It feels really great to get a refill, to be honest, it was necessary.

Karen Smythe  1:16:43  
It looks like you got a little hot water.

Perry Allen  1:16:45  
I did. I took an extra 30 seconds to heat it up, but those electric kettles, every time I'm surprised I'm actually standing there longer, expecting it to still be boiling, but it's already there. Modern

Karen Smythe  1:16:58  
technology, that one's a good one. We have in there,

Speaker 1  1:17:01  
yeah.

Karen Smythe  1:17:02  
Some take a lot with that one. That one actually moves pretty quick, for sure.

Perry Allen  1:17:08  
We've recently gotten an induction stove. Have you boiled water on an induction stove?

Karen Smythe  1:17:16  
I have not.

Perry Allen  1:17:17  
Oh, you'll.. it'll spoil you for the rest of your life. I was not the

Karen Smythe  1:17:22  
electric stones take forever, so

Perry Allen  1:17:23  
yeah, I'm a pasta pot of water in a minute. Is it a rolling boil

Speaker 1  1:17:32  
that

Karen Smythe  1:17:32  
conduction,

Frances Uku  1:17:33  
induction?

Perry Allen  1:17:34  
Yeah, actually blew my mind. It's like Wizardry,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:17:38  
then you need special pans, right? Like, you can't use certain,

Perry Allen  1:17:41  
yeah,

Frances Uku  1:17:43  
as long as they're induction custom, you're fine with most of what you have.

Karen Smythe  1:17:47  
Interesting. All right, so back at it. So, Craig, we're talking about the Pride flag. Not sure when, when you ducked out, but the Pride flag, we have a poll back here over the last two years, one year we did the whole month of June for the for Pride month, believe it was last year we did, we put it up on the Friday and took it down on the Monday of the weekend where the Pride event happened, and so there are a couple of things that go with why we're actually talking about this, there's something called government speech, and then there's something called free speech. If you end up, if you have something that ends up being designated as free speech, you can't say no to anything, but if it's government speech, i.e. it's done consciously by the board, it's government speech, and so you can choose to not not say yes to everything, and then there's there's a fair amount of gray area in the middle. It's one of those laws that you can get lost in, but the board has felt in the past that this was an important opportunity to show support. And

Melkorka Kjarval  1:19:01  
can I explain how it came about the first time? Sure. So, when the Pride festival first was getting organized, they came to ask us if we would contact all the different village businesses and ask them to do put up Pride flags, and we said that's not our role, but we could see whether or not we feel comfortable flying one, but they didn't ask us to fly it,

Speaker 1  1:19:23  
and

Melkorka Kjarval  1:19:23  
so then it became a discussion about whether or not it was, you know, how long we wanted to do it, but it was part of their application that they, or they made a request there, and we were a little like

Amy Smith   1:19:35  
it was in their event application,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:19:36  
yeah, and it was, yeah, it was something that was outside our role to like tell business owners or ask business owners to put up flags, you know, they can do what they want, but that's how the discussion came along, and it wasn't that they asked us, it was that we were prompted by that conversation.

Perry Allen  1:19:54  
Yeah, oops, I find we're in a moment where it's imperative to be explicitly inclusive, so I'm very comfortable using our government speech as much as we can to express that.

Karen Smythe  1:20:09  
So, Perry has said that he would be open to the full month of June, flying the flag. Craig, do you have a perspective on that?

Craig Rothstein  1:20:18  
I'm very comfortable with

Speaker 1  1:20:21  
it the

Speaker 2  1:20:22  
whole month.

Craig Rothstein  1:20:23  
Yeah, I'm curious. I want to understand a bit better about the government speech. Is when basically speech is what's sanctioned or initiated by

Karen Smythe  1:20:37  
the

Craig Rothstein  1:20:37  
board, putting the flag up for the month would be an act of government speed, correct, because the government said

Melkorka Kjarval  1:20:44  
no one arrested us,

Craig Rothstein  1:20:46  
and is that how? So, where does that? Where does the why is that? I mean, this maybe is a dumb question, because I believe that there are dumb questions, but why is that relevant?

Karen Smythe  1:20:59  
Well, it's relevant. There's actually case law where, and I don't remember, maybe you remember

Frances Uku  1:21:04  
Shurtleff versus Boston,

Karen Smythe  1:21:06  
where

Frances Uku  1:21:06  
Shurtle versus Boston, Boston, Boston, yeah,

Karen Smythe  1:21:09  
Boston, yeah. So they had, they had a flag pole, and people would come with their flags, and they would, they would fly the flag, and they did that for years, and then there was a religious organization that came and said we'd like you to fly our flag, and they said, "Oh, this is separation of church and state, no, we won't fly your flag, and so they sued, and so the ruling was because they, because they said yes to anyone who came, and the first time this was the first time they said no, they said that you, that they had effectively established a pole of free speech, and that they could not say no, so that's why we have, we've, I know I have, and Milkor and I spent some time talking about, and Amy too, what, what would thinking about if we allow this, what else do we have to allow, and so sometimes when it comes to events, it's it's making sure that the parameters that we use give us the opportunity to say no to something, and so there may be a time where we decide that we don't want to go in a particular direction because we want the option to say no later.

Craig Rothstein  1:22:18  
So that case, this is not establishing a free speech flag pole,

Karen Smythe  1:22:22  
correct, correct,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:22:24  
and that's why we're being so formal about

Speaker 1  1:22:25  
it, right?

Karen Smythe  1:22:26  
Yes, all right. So, you're for the month, year for the month,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:22:30  
I'm for the

Speaker 1  1:22:31  
month.

Frances Uku  1:22:31  
Well, from my perspective, and maybe it's, it's helpful, or maybe it's not helpful going back to exactly this time last year when it did come up, and we discussed flying the Pride flag. I'm just going to read the minutes from then. Just this was for the June meeting that the Trustees discussed flying the Pride flag as part of government speech for the days around the Beckwith Pride Festival to be held at the Municipal Law. Trustee Uku stated concerns about the village participating in government speech. She indicated that she would rather the village not initiate government speech, shirt left versus Boston, as you say, it's Wade Beltrano at Nicom is a very big First Amendment guy, and I feel personally that it is sufficient that we are an inclusive open village. We, we hosted Beck Hook Pride unanimous approval to host that youth parade this year, unanimous approval. I personally do not see why that needs why we need to invite potential scrutiny, potential First Amendment challenges by having it specifically on the building. I feel that it is sufficient by hosting events, by facilitating events to show that we are an inclusive, welcoming. I just personally, for the reasons Karen and, and council being Nicom, have advised, I just don't think that it's, I don't think it's appropriate. That's, that's my view on

Melkorka Kjarval  1:24:01  
it,

Perry Allen  1:24:03  
and please,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:24:04  
oh, just that when we'd had this conversation in the past, I had said we also put out the Bard welcome students banner, because we want to make a special extra effort, because we know that, you know, it's important to Bard students. I feel the same way about the flag. I feel like it's important to families that live here to show that, you know this is a safe community, and we care about them, you know, but that's just that's my personal,

Perry Allen  1:24:26  
I think, in perhaps echoing that, as it's a, as pride is a response to being imperiled, you know, it feels

Frances Uku  1:24:39  
to be imperiled,

Perry Allen  1:24:40  
yeah, so if, if, if the Pride month is, is centered around, you know, LGBTQ plus individuals being socially imperiled in America, there's, there's a risk of that group being harmed structurally, and it's growing. I think it's has been historically noble efforts when municipalities hold the backs of those constituents in moments of crisis, and so I appreciate what you're saying, because I also don't want to get into First Amendment gray areas, but I think it's, I mean, I would probably always feel cool flying the flag, but it feels especially good right now to those who need to see it to know that we are open to being very visibly supportive,

Frances Uku  1:25:46  
floating this by you, and it's, it's take it in this most sincere intent, because that's how it's coming. Do you feel that people, that whether you feel that their points of view are abhorrent or not. Do you feel that people who don't share that view are still worthy of representation and worthy of..

Perry Allen  1:26:12  
do I think.. do I.. oh, do I think hate has a place at the table?

Frances Uku  1:26:16  
I mean, if you want to put it that way, but no,

Perry Allen  1:26:18  
no, I don't think Kate has played with the table.

Frances Uku  1:26:22  
No, no,

Perry Allen  1:26:23  
that's like that's the paradox of tolerance, I suppose, right?

Frances Uku  1:26:28  
So, so you're saying someone who, for instance, would prefer not to, someone who would prefer not to fly a flag in their own home, or where, or specifically with pride, that someone who is not up for the physical representation, or who would feel excluded if there were a pride flag flying in the village, you would be cool if they just felt okay. Well, I'm not done with that. So,

Perry Allen  1:27:04  
I'm cool with them being represented, and then we should vote on it, I suppose. And then the majority of people who have a certain perspective of who's accepted or who we want to then will be determined by the vote.

Frances Uku  1:27:19  
Okay, so we say it's so we say we fly it, and then someone comes and asks if we would be cool with flying. Well, okay, so that's a request, and this is this is coming out of us, but that's a value statement in itself, right? This is what we would be saying is important to say, but there are other things that are important to say. June happens to commemorate Juneteenth, that is another very important thing in our country. I mean, it's not to the exclusion of we're not pitting things against each other, but I'm just saying that these are all choices that we can reflect, too. I, if we flew it for all of June, then if we flew Pride, now

Melkorka Kjarval  1:27:57  
that's kind of a false flag conversation, because we've had that conversation had the schedule, and wanted to fly both flags, and you refused that conversation,

Frances Uku  1:28:06  
because it was the binary, and I'm not interested in

Speaker 1  1:28:08  
the binary. It

Melkorka Kjarval  1:28:09  
was that we do one for the weekend, and then we would do the Juneteenth for the,

Frances Uku  1:28:13  
that's two, that's two things, that's binary, right? That's two events. I'm not saying exclusive of, and those were the two things we were talking

Perry Allen  1:28:20  
about,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:28:21  
there was there was a discussion. We tried to set up a schedule because we wanted to accommodate that,

Frances Uku  1:28:27  
in which I said yes, but we would know it was not refused. What we said is, or what I said anyway, was that I would be up for if we were to fly, then we would have a flag fairness policy. However, we came up with that, and that, that seemed like it would be tricky.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:28:42  
You were set up to..

Perry Allen  1:28:44  
I actually wonder, actually wonder, and I almost like the process that we're in right now is a good flag flying process, because it keeps it relevant to the moment of representation, like you're talking about, because if every time, if every time there's a flag to be considered. We bring it up and we talk about

Speaker 1  1:29:02  
it, and

Perry Allen  1:29:03  
then we voted on his group. If there's the representation in the village that we should not fly the pride flag, then that'll, then it'll pass that way. And if there's representation in the village that we should fly the pride flag, then it is. And

Frances Uku  1:29:15  
what do you mean, representation

Perry Allen  1:29:17  
to your point of saying that are we not representing everybody? everybody, I let the votes show that I suppose, like, if let, let, let your vote stand against it as representation for those, for those who you've heard from, who are uncomfortable with the pride flag, and my vote will represent those who are comfortable with the pride flag.

Frances Uku  1:29:46  
That's an interesting way of casting. Does

Perry Allen  1:29:50  
that make sense?

Frances Uku  1:29:50  
Well, no, not really. That's not who I would be speaking for. If someone like,

Perry Allen  1:29:57  
so then who

Craig Rothstein  1:29:58  
are you gonna go to bed for the, for the, for the social issues you agree with, will you go to bat equally as a representative for the social issues you don't agree with? That seems to be one of the issues at play here. I would suggest that we are in a socio-political moment that for people of a certain persuasion demand more activist local legislators, which we are, and we are not the judiciary, so that's important, because we don't need to maintain a sort of, we're not a political body, technically, or these are not political positions, but we can be activists in decisions we make, and if it's a choice to run the Pride flag the entire month of June, that is an activist position, because it's going to provoke a known vocal, probably current minority in the, in the town. There will be complaints, you can look at Facebook, there will be people who have, but I couldn't care less, because I think it's okay that we were to sign on to something like that. I think it's also okay to fly a Juneteenth flag, which I would point out is commemorating a day, as opposed to something like Black Pride Month, which is, you know, that's the entire month, whereas June is the Pride Month. So we could fly.. I don't know if we fly flags for Black Pride Month, I would.. I would.. we

Karen Smythe  1:31:17  
have not..

Craig Rothstein  1:31:18  
Black History Month.. I would.. I would be, you know, if a flag was appropriate to that, not my decision to make unilaterally, but I would vote for that too. I think it, you know, you look at what happened, what was it at Stonewall, where the federal administration demanded things be taken down, and the local administration put them back up. The same thing happened, I think, in Boston, where they are, no, some city where they, they had to paint over the crosswalks and make them non-rainbow, so they made the sidewalks rainbow. The point is, I think it's for me, and in the current social and political moment, I like the idea of pushing back on a federal government that has quashed people's individual expression of non-traditional white conservative values, which seem to be what the administration in Washington is putting forth, so to me, but I do, I do understand there may come a time this opens a door down the road where somebody will say we want you to fly a flag and you don't agree with the values behind the flag, but

Frances Uku  1:32:21  
that's not even because it's not someone coming, it's not someone coming, but this is something that's coming out of this board, like this is the board expressing its own making government speech as to what it thinks it's important or worthy, and I think

Craig Rothstein  1:32:35  
that that I'm comfortable with that, but I understand, I do understand where you're coming from, which I think is a very valid place, and I think this is how it plays out. You get a vote that's not necessarily unanimous.

Frances Uku  1:32:51  
No, no, no, no, it's.. oh, I see. Yeah, not unanimous, but a majority.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:32:56  
I was just going to say that, like, the I believe very strongly in people's right to free speech and their right to believe what they believe and their right to say what they want, but I also believe that we were elected, and here we are, sitting, all of us elected, right, to you know, make hard choices and make choices that we believe are right, and that, you know, and also to be called to account for it, so if people are mad at us, they can yell at us, and they can come to the meetings and yell at us, you know. And I think that we are never going to make everyone happy, and we're never going to make represent everyone's viewpoint, because that's not why we're elected. We're elected to bring our own varied viewpoints and our own perspectives and experience to the table, and my own perspective and experience informs the idea that I'd be comfortable with them, so that's, but I appreciate the conversation. I appreciate the simpleness of the conversation,

Karen Smythe  1:33:54  
and I think, given that we still have a lengthy agenda, I'm going to suggest that we take a vote, so we take a motion to what I'm hearing is the month, so I'd take a motion to fly the Triflex for the month of June.

Perry Allen  1:34:09  
So moved.

Karen Smythe  1:34:10  
Second, and we will do a roll call vote. Craig,

Craig Rothstein  1:34:18  
aye.

Karen Smythe  1:34:19  
Mel Cork, aye. Perry, aye. Fran. No, I'm an aye. Okay. Thank you very much.

Perry Allen  1:34:29  
Thank you for arguing

Karen Smythe  1:34:32  
that

Craig Rothstein  1:34:34  
with me.

Perry Allen  1:34:41  
It's good to have the way you like to grow up.

Craig Rothstein  1:34:46  
Oh,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:34:49  
all

Karen Smythe  1:34:52  
right. The next item is Wetland Rehabilitation Task Force, I I will just make a, make a couple of comments. I have some issues with some of the whereas is that you have, but I am very, very supportive of establishing this task force, and I think this is a terrific idea. I am the other piece is, I don't, I don't think we're at a point to indicate like the last sentence you have is the intention is to move toward on the ground rehabilitation efforts as soon as possible. I'm not comfortable with that statement because I think we have a lot of information and we have a lot of learning to do. The other piece that's also not not noted in here is there's a DEC easement on this property, so any and everything that's done as it relates to this has to be run by DEC, and I don't know, I don't know what that looks like or what they would expect, but that's why I think establishing the task force, it sort of, you know, because there aren't any members here, this is just to say we want to establish this task force. We're acknowledging that we have this wetland. We're acknowledging that there are a variety of things that have happened, starting with, I mean, way back, actually, Bard College has testing information from the 70s, which was before even read how commons wastewater treatment plant, because the I, you know, when I first heard we had a pie factory, I immediately thought of cherries and apples, and the fact that it's a meat packing pie plant that would discharge all sorts of nasty stuff into the ground, so there's a long history, and I want to make sure that we're not uniquely focusing on the wastewater treatment plant, because we certainly had a year of a year, arguably plus a little, where we were discharging partially or untreated wastewater, very true, but wastewater goes through the ground and it dissipates, so the issues really, it's not a long-term issue from the discharge, and we have not discharged significant, actually, since June. The only discharge that we've had that's been in noncompliance has been partially treated, and I will note we have had no non-compliance events since february 24 and so I just want to make sure that we're not putting in this, that we're blaming everything on the wastewater treatment plant. You might imagine a little sensitive to that.

Perry Allen  1:37:37  
Certainly,

Karen Smythe  1:37:37  
so it's really, so I guess for me it's really just wanting to frame it as this is a wonderful opportunity, and it's I also want to make sure that to me I don't want to charge this group to re.. what's the word I want there.. there was a full cleanup that was done by DEC into.. I think it finished in either 2000 It probably had to be 2006 I don't want to re-litigate that. We have all the testing. They've even - they came back twice last year, at least twice last year, to re-look at everything, and they said everything. If you haven't seen those documents, let me know. I will make sure you have them. They have been shared publicly, they, and so I want to make sure that we're not going to do, you know, testing, etc. because that's really not.. I don't think that's a good use of our time and resources. I think the best use is to say, what.. what's the condition? What's the current condition of the wastewater of the wetland. What are the inputs to the wetlands? Because I think from the pond area that's probably getting storm water from Route nine, and you've got, you've got runoff from Red Hook Estates, that's going into the other side, and then farther up, well, that's not going into the wetlands, so that's not the same. So I think to establish this group to say let's evaluate the let's evaluate the health of the wetland and evaluate the inputs, then say, you know, because I think there's some initial testing in various areas to say what are the inputs, what does it look like, and then say okay, now what can we do, because I had, I had a meeting with Karen Schneller McDonald, who used to be the chair of the waste of the Sawki watershed community, and she is a wetland restoration expert, and because I kept hearing erosion, erosion, I'm like, where's the erosion coming from, because the quantity of water liquid that's coming out of the wastewater treatment plant, it's just not that much, and so when we talked about it, she said, well, there's all this silt and that sort of thing. Well, effectively, where it appears to be coming from is the runoff from red estates, because there's a, there's a decline, and so as all the storm water comes, it's going to take some of the some of

Frances Uku  1:39:58  
the top soil

Karen Smythe  1:40:00  
with it, and that's that really appears to be what's creating the the erosion, so I'm like, okay, it doesn't mean there's no erosion, but let's not blame it on the floor treatment discharge, so that's that's really what I want to,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:40:12  
can I add a, of course,

Karen Smythe  1:40:15  
I just, I shared my thoughts,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:40:17  
yeah, yeah, first off, this is great, and it's awesome, I also am wondering, does it have to be just that area? Can it be like storm water in general, and like resilience in general, or do we want to? I always want to increase the scope, so Karen, right now.

Frances Uku  1:40:33  
So,

Karen Smythe  1:40:35  
here's what,

Speaker 1  1:40:35  
here's

Karen Smythe  1:40:35  
what I'm going to suggest. I'm going to suggest that we, and arguably, instead of calling it the wastewater treatment plant, what wetland rehabilitation task force, maybe we call it a wetland task, and the first

Perry Allen  1:40:46  
project is this one, is

Karen Smythe  1:40:48  
this one, and then, and obviously we can always change it, you know, we can always say down the road we want to expand its, its role or its charge, from the, I would like very much, because one of the issues with expanding too much too quickly is you then lose focus, and then you don't really get anywhere.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:41:06  
I should know this. I just.. I.. there's a lot of like storm water resilience, sort of like you know, you can do studies to like sort of.. there are a lot of places in the village that could, you know, benefit, but

Perry Allen  1:41:18  
I definitely agree, and that's something I'd be personally passionate about pursuing the three local environmental scientists who I've spoken to already, who are passionate about embarking on this, are Zoe Evans. Sorry, my sickness, I can tell, is was there Rogers, Michelle Gluck,

Karen Smythe  1:41:42  
Susan Rogers,

Perry Allen  1:41:43  
Susan Rogers. I haven't been able to touch base with yet because she is currently abroad on

Karen Smythe  1:41:48  
an avian exhibition. She's

Perry Allen  1:41:50  
incredible. Yeah, no, I would like to wrap her in. And is Alice

Speaker 1  1:41:55  
Michelle

Perry Allen  1:41:56  
Sandor, Amanda Sandor? Thank you. Thank you very much. I can feel the cold is rising again. They're all very passionate about the

Karen Smythe  1:42:06  
second one.

Perry Allen  1:42:07  
Michelle Gluck, who also serves on the Climate Smart Committee and works for Ulster County as well in one of their environmental programs.

Karen Smythe  1:42:15  
Yeah, so say Amanda works for the Ulster County Soil and Water,

Perry Allen  1:42:17  
so I..

Karen Smythe  1:42:19  
she lives in the town over here, and then Michelle lives in a village.

Perry Allen  1:42:23  
Yes, only one is a village resident in that way. Is that a, is that okay in terms of our operations? Because I know all three are very passionate to at least volunteer their

Karen Smythe  1:42:33  
services. I was going to say, here's one thought, and this would be a question of what, what the makeup is, I think having experts is, is, is going to be very valuable. The other question would be, does it make sense to have some interested folks who might live on Smith Street, for example?

Perry Allen  1:42:50  
Yes, I agree,

Karen Smythe  1:42:51  
as a, as a possible, and again, not everybody, but I think there might be a thought as to there may be some folks who are a little more engaged and a little bit more, because you don't want someone to come in and just say everything's terrible and we can't do anything about it, or you know that you want someone who's productive, but there may be a couple folks, because I, he would be great. Do you know Chris Solomon,

Perry Allen  1:43:18  
Julia Solomon's husband, not personally.

Karen Smythe  1:43:21  
He works for Cary Institute, and he's a, he's aquatic restoration. I would

Melkorka Kjarval  1:43:28  
like for you

Perry Allen  1:43:31  
to please connect me with whoever, and I will talk

Karen Smythe  1:43:36  
to live over there might, might be an interesting one or two, not overwhelming the committee, I spoke. I had forgotten two months ago I said yes to being the speaker for the Rotary this morning, and there's a woman who lives on Benner Road, and she has like a little sliver in the village, and she's interested, because I mentioned that I actually mentioned that I was hoping we'd agree with this tonight, and she mentioned that she's really interested. She's not sure who wants, she wants to be on the committee, and I said, "Well, there'll be.. it'll be a public meeting, so you can always go to the meeting and see what.. well, it depends on what, and I'm like, "I get it. I said, "But you know, we'll make it public, so you're aware, and you can come and sort of either give you two cents or just listen, so I think that may be a way, but I think the piece that's going to be important is to say what is our charge, you know, what is it that we are charging this committee with, and I think it's to come up with a plan to evaluate, you know, so pull together the history, come up with a plan to evaluate, and, and certainly, I mean, I think looking at potential funding sources, I think possibly before the well, the funding sources may, you know, it's part of it, is what's the plan to sort of assess

Perry Allen  1:45:00  
that was the last thing, and then there's funding. What's the proposal for here?

Karen Smythe  1:45:04  
And then you do the assessment, and then you come up with more funding to do the restoration stuff, because first you're going to need money to assess what you've got, and then you're going to need money to actually implement the plan that you come up with. You probably need money to come up with the plan too.

Perry Allen  1:45:19  
I was gonna say the coming up with the plan as well, so the one part we didn't say yes. Okay, great. I mean, I agree with this. I think I'm comfortable striking whatever we need to, because I care mostly about just this far starting. So,

Karen Smythe  1:45:35  
here's what I'm, here's what I'm going to recommend.

Karen Smythe  1:45:37  
Yeah,

Karen Smythe  1:45:37  
that we don't vote on this tonight, that we rework

Perry Allen  1:45:43  
uncomfortable redrafting based off of coming back to it,

Karen Smythe  1:45:47  
because I think when we've established, I mean, we're calling this a task force, we can call it a committee, you know,

Frances Uku  1:45:53  
I like committee,

Perry Allen  1:45:54  
I wanted to hear,

Perry Allen  1:46:02  
like it

Karen Smythe  1:46:09  
sounds active, I'll shoot an email to Nicom, and say, what do you see? What do you see the differences between task force and community? Someone had told me that task forces are generally created by the mayor at the at the mayor's entire whim was not the word that was used, but and so I don't, this is going to be, and so I think it may end up making more sense to call it a committee because we have a formal process for that that we went through last year, so but then with that it'll we'll talk about how many members, how many, how many we want from who live in the village

Frances Uku  1:46:47  
terms,

Karen Smythe  1:46:49  
you know. And then we can have the charge of, and we can create the charge that says, you know, sort of the overall charge is to focus on, you know, to start with focusing on the wastewater treatment plant wetland, we need to come up with a name, it can't be the wastewater,

Perry Allen  1:47:04  
whereas I tried to

Perry Allen  1:47:05  
loop with the Red Hood, used

Karen Smythe  1:47:08  
to be called Mazinos Pond,

Perry Allen  1:47:11  
I like that,

Frances Uku  1:47:19  
but then you'd have to educate this one, what is what is Mazinos Wetland? I don't know,

Karen Smythe  1:47:26  
it's a.. there's.. it's.. it's in the.. isn't it in the comprehensive plan?

Melkorka Kjarval  1:47:31  
I think our

Karen Smythe  1:47:32  
big one, and

Perry Allen  1:47:36  
a few docs with

Frances Uku  1:47:38  
it. Just into.. if this is something that you're envisioning being able to go into the community and get buy-in right away, and start work, like, just, you know, just introducing a new name, and if it's, if it's a tricky to get your mouth around name, it just might be, you want some, I hear what you mean, something, but on the, on the, on the flip side, it actually, for those who've been here a long time, they're very familiar with Massanos Pond. I mean, not, not new folks, but so there are definitely those who are familiar with Massanos Pond,

Karen Smythe  1:48:08  
and there are.. I mean, it used to be.. there's a whole history. So, the flip side, I understand what you're saying, but the other way is by introducing this name, you're validating it to the history, and there'll be somebody in there, say, well, where'd that

Perry Allen  1:48:22  
finally,

Karen Smythe  1:48:23  
and so that can also be part of the description of the wetland, because part of it, I think, is to understand the history, and it just needs to not be the wastewater treatment plant wetland, it's like that's too many words anyway, so anyway, I mean, obviously the it can be different, but you're right, it, it is a, it is a pond. We should have, we should do a session where we all walk back there, pretty cool.

Perry Allen  1:48:51  
Actually, having a chance to get into

Speaker 1  1:48:53  
the wetlands,

Karen Smythe  1:48:54  
I have some of it's a little bush whacking, but it's, it's pretty cool back

Speaker 1  1:48:58  
there.

Perry Allen  1:49:00  
And I just want to say this as well, before we move on, and then I'm happy to edit this. Thank you so much for thoughts and support on this. I really believe in this. I put this under my project list simply because I feel like I have the energy for it, you know, and I think I have a certain skill in just project direction and management, not because I necessarily feel like I'm an expert in the rehabilitation process, but that's why we'll bring in all of these

Karen Smythe  1:49:24  
people, and then you'll get someone else to chair the committee.

Perry Allen  1:49:26  
Yeah, yeah, sure. Fair enough.

Karen Smythe  1:49:28  
I don't have any, I don't have any issue with that. I know anybody else is leaping forward to say that's got to be mine. I think

Melkorka Kjarval  1:49:39  
sewer liaison, you have like a lot of there's going to have a lot more knowledge as you go,

Perry Allen  1:49:43  
yeah,

Speaker 1  1:49:44  
fantastic.

Perry Allen  1:49:45  
Thank you. All right, I'll come back to the next meeting.

Karen Smythe  1:49:48  
So, one, so let's, let's work together, let's look at the past format that we've used for other committees, and then maybe we can also have an initial members to start at our at our next meeting as a possibility, and if not, we can say we'll add them later, but, but I think that's, I think, yeah, no, I think this is great.

Perry Allen  1:50:09  
Okay, perfect. Thank you. This was fun to write a resolution. Never, never written a resolution in my life.

Karen Smythe  1:50:16  
You can't say that. Okay, so Perry, you had brought up the notion of speed limit and traffic, and what have you, and I mentioned in going back, this is not a new topic, it's also not a topic unique to us. There's a mayors and supervisors association of Dutchess County that I, that meets monthly, and every community in Dutchess County is talking about it, and frankly, it's, it's definitely statewide, it's probably countywide, and so it is an ongoing kind of forever issue, but we as a board have actually been working on a couple of projects related to that. So Mel Crook had put together a summary, so I'm going to let you,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:50:59  
yeah, and it's all everyone else's work, so just basically just getting everyone up to speed with what's happened so far. So basically, the village has an area speed zone, which means that you know we have 30 miles per hour within the village that includes the New York State and Dutch County roads as well, and there is, we have it in our code, but it's also because that's a lap that was what was the minimum allowed by the state, the state in august 12, 2022 allowed villages and cities to reduce speed limits to 25 miles per hour, but you have to go through a process, one of the I did these two diagrams just to show when you have an area speed limit, you only have to put signs up at the, you know, boundaries of the entry roads, which means that when they get hit by a plow truck or they fade, you know that when you're replacing them and maintaining them, you only have to do those spots, but it's hard to see because this is black and white, but if you could, if we did an area speed limit for the just not area speed limit, we did speed limit for just village roads, we'd have to sign all along the New York state routes, unless we get them to authorize changing the speed limit. So basically, the law that that she passed in 2022 yes, so said that you have to have a professional engineer that specializes in traffic operations that consults with the MU TCD, which is it's an acronym for, like, this DOT Federal Guide on Safety Regulations, and how you design streets. Anyway, so you basically have to get a report that says this is safe to do and it's recommended, so that's and the other problem that's hard, as I've mentioned before, is that we have the state routes that go through and we also have a county route and they're the ones that are authorized, they would have to drop those feelings on those roads themselves, so Trustee Kim Bradley Rickard, she took on the project when she was after she was elected, and so she worked on getting a proposal from Creighton Manning, an engineering firm, to get an actual professional traffic study for the village, and then she left in 2025 and Trustee Amy Smith took up the project, and so she's been working on implementing the school speed zone part of that recommendation from that traffic study. So, there's two things that we went for: one was reducing the speed limit as an area, so also on the state routes, and the other was doing a speed zone around the school, which would be just during school hours on Linden and on

Karen Smythe  1:53:52  
199

Melkorka Kjarval  1:53:53  
199 Thank you. Sorry to get tired. Basically, the packet was set in. They requested letters, so Amy got letters from Janet Warden and Bob Elkin to, because it's a county

Karen Smythe  1:54:06  
road, county DPW

Melkorka Kjarval  1:54:07  
commissioner. Yes, because it's Linden as a county road for letters of support. So they have the packet, they are reviewing it. I called them today, they are still reviewing it there. It's they have an investigator, a safety group, a regional traffic safety group investigator that is reviewing the request and making sure it's safe, and you know that we basically ask for the max amount of distance that we can get, and then they'll let us know what they think is safe and appropriate, and what kind of signage we need to get, and all that sort of stuff, and then the cost of implementing the school speed zone. There's a rolling New York state grant that Amy has identified that she thinks we'll be able to get to pay for those specific speeds, see speed signs, and the hope is that we get this approved, we get this speed zone for the school, and it's like almost like a proof of concept. And then we go, we ask the DMT for doing the stage, for instance, and then we drop it throughout the whole village. We don't have to do something like the town did, which is where they have, you know, just neighborhoods or little areas that, you know,

Speaker 1  1:55:09  
just

Frances Uku  1:55:10  
make a village.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:55:11  
Yeah, we all deserve to have people going. Yeah. Oh, and then the last thing is interesting, that our assembly representative is working as a bill in committee about allowing the municipalities to drop the speed limit on state routes, so I don't know when I'll get out of committee. There's also the same bill in the state senate committee as well, but we can always write a letter saying we support

Melkorka Kjarval  1:55:36  
it.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:55:40  
Yeah, you could take

Robert McKeon  1:55:42  
it. Thank you.

Karen Smythe  1:55:44  
So, that covers that covers the school speed limit, school speed zone, and the 25 mile an hour. That's sort of where we are with those projects. I do want to add, we've also talked about speed bumps, speed humps, and I know there's specific difference between hump and bump. I never remember what they are, I've actually been working with DPW foreman Jake for a while in the fall. I said it's so I've had several conversations with him. He does not like them, he does not want them, because if you have a permanent one when you're snow plowing, it's problematic, because just imagine snow storms usually come at night, so it's dark, and then you've got all the snow that's coming at you. You really, you really not seeing, even if there are signs, you might not see it. It doesn't mean that they shouldn't know their roads, very true, but it has the potential to damage the plow, and and so it's really the winter time where it becomes problematic. Told me a

Melkorka Kjarval  1:56:44  
terrifying story about how the blade that they have in the front of the snow plow, which they have to replace because it gets dulled, once popped off and came through a windshield.

Frances Uku  1:56:52  
Jesus,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:56:53  
it's like it's dangerous what they do. So I can understand how you'd want it to be safe, but there

Frances Uku  1:56:59  
are speed limit, not not bumps and humps.

Karen Smythe  1:57:03  
There are well, however, just because you lower the speed limit doesn't mean people will slow down.

Frances Uku  1:57:07  
Well, sure,

Karen Smythe  1:57:08  
but there are temporary speed bump

Speaker 1  1:57:11  
hump,

Karen Smythe  1:57:11  
and so I had said to Jake in the fall, you pick, you pick the type, because there are hundreds of different types, and the guy never came out when winter came, and what have

Speaker 1  1:57:22  
you.

Karen Smythe  1:57:22  
The guy's actually coming tomorrow, and so hopefully I can join him, and we will look at the different types. And the plan at this point is to start on, and this is temporary, so we're not - that's it's because we can also take it up if it's really terrible.

Frances Uku  1:57:37  
So it's like a pilot right now. You're going to,

Karen Smythe  1:57:39  
yeah, it's going to be a pilot, and we're going to start on Fisk Street, and the reason why we're going to start on Fisk Street is because, I mean, there are a variety, whole variety of reasons, but two, three months ago there was someone who was speeding coming off Route Nine into Fisk, and they actually ran into the fire hydrant that's right there by the water, if anybody had been walking there. If anybody, I mean, it was not.. it would not.. it would have been a fatality.

Perry Allen  1:58:05  
Someone told me a story. Watched it through the window happened, and they were..

Karen Smythe  1:58:09  
yeah, I was actually over there yesterday, because I walked over to the VFW, and I'm like, yeah, maybe not right at the.. so we'll.. and when I talked to Jake about it, he's like, 'Well, there's another spot farther down before you make blind, so we'll figure, so I think we'll probably do two on Fisk Street, because Fisk Street is also a very, very regular cut through, and the problem, and I also thought that maybe we should think about a sign that says slow down, you know, our children are playing, kind of thing. It doesn't mean that there aren't many other places that we can consider same, but I think part of it will be understanding what whatever type Jake picks is like and how people react to

Speaker 1  1:58:49  
it,

Karen Smythe  1:58:50  
and the question is going to be, if people passing through don't like it, I think I will be a little, I care a little less, I will care more about the people who live in the community as to how they feel about it, so once Jake picks the one he wants, we get a price. Then we'll come back with, but that's something I don't expect it to be a whole to be all that expensive. I really don't. And then I'll probably just make an effort to maybe knock on some doors along this street to say, hey, by the way, this is coming. So

Perry Allen  1:59:21  
when I was canvassing it with a concern brought up among around the village, but then especially over my neighbors, would that was something those living on Fifth Street, every single one brought up too, so you're gonna get a lot of support for that,

Karen Smythe  1:59:38  
and if you've ever walked along there, you know exactly what they're talking

Perry Allen  1:59:41  
about. My kids do, and they take that curve when we get very nervous.

Karen Smythe  1:59:45  
So, so that seemed like a logical place to start. And, as I say, I don't know that we need a huge number. I will, I mean, I live on Park Avenue, it's a very straight road.

Perry Allen  1:59:54  
I bet that's used as a cut through Elizabeth. We, that's

Karen Smythe  1:59:57  
a, yeah, use

Perry Allen  1:59:58  
that to get to firehouse.

Karen Smythe  2:00:01  
So, you know, think about it. I don't think we need, I don't think we need speed humps everywhere, but I do think could be

Melkorka Kjarval  2:00:06  
temporary, and they just move

Speaker 1  2:00:08  
around,

Perry Allen  2:00:09  
keep it

Perry Allen  2:00:16  
intermittent.

Karen Smythe  2:00:18  
There will be signs that will be too happy, just side of it. So, do

Melkorka Kjarval  2:00:22  
you remember those? I know we're getting late, but do you remember those dolls in the 90s that were like kid-sized with my sister, big sister? No,

Perry Allen  2:00:30  
you don't remember them.

Melkorka Kjarval  2:00:31  
They sold them, they were like kid size anyway. My point was, I was driving in Connecticut last summer, and there was someone that had like pretend lemonade stand that said slow down, and they were fake kids, but it did make

Karen Smythe  2:00:46  
that's a little like putting the cop car with it has nobody in it. We're all getting very creative.

Speaker 1  2:00:52  
I love it.

Karen Smythe  2:00:52  
All right, so that's that's the update on that. Perry, you wanted to talk about, well, yeah, you want to talk about school writing. So let's do that.

Okay, next item on the agenda is the Pride flag. What we have done for the past couple of years is we as a board have authorized the flying of the Pride flag. One year we did the whole month of June. One year we did the long weekend of the Pride of the Pride parade. I kind of like the weekend of the Pride parade, which would be not this coming weekend, but the following weekend, and I think we did it Friday through Monday, I think it was put it up Friday and take it down Monday

Melkorka Kjarval  1:15:13  
through the eighth,

Karen Smythe  1:15:14  
yeah, and it's the, it's the flagpole back here, so nothing in the front changes that stays the way it is current. Well, currently I don't think we have any flag, but normally we're flying the Tree City USA flag up there. Were they able to repair it? Are they still? They still need, they need it. It's made to be able to be lifted out easily. It's not lifting out, so they need, they need some equipment, which I believe Dave Street Service is going to provide to actually pull it out and see what the problem is, and make it work, so you know if it all completely fails, this is a moot point, but the idea is that we would have the opportunity to, if we all agree, then it can happen, if the poll is working, it's not working, it's not working.

Perry Allen  1:16:03  
Yeah, and I certainly support it being hung for as long as, as long as we like. Yeah.

Karen Smythe  1:16:08  
Okay.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:16:09  
How long would you like?

Perry Allen  1:16:11  
So, forgive my ignorance. The whole month of June was because it's Pride month.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:16:16  
Pride

Karen Smythe  1:16:16  
month, yeah.

Perry Allen  1:16:17  
I mean, I'm open for the whole month, to be honest. That's what I would suppose personally.

Karen Smythe  1:16:26  
Okay,

Frances Uku  1:16:28  
like Craig took a bathroom break.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:16:30  
Yeah, I might actually get a water myself.

Perry Allen  1:16:38  
It feels really great to get a refill, to be honest, it was necessary.

Karen Smythe  1:16:43  
It looks like you got a little hot water.

Perry Allen  1:16:45  
I did. I took an extra 30 seconds to heat it up, but those electric kettles, every time I'm surprised I'm actually standing there longer, expecting it to still be boiling, but it's already there. Modern

Karen Smythe  1:16:58  
technology, that one's a good one. We have in there,

Speaker 1  1:17:01  
yeah.

Karen Smythe  1:17:02  
Some take a lot with that one. That one actually moves pretty quick, for sure.

Perry Allen  1:17:08  
We've recently gotten an induction stove. Have you boiled water on an induction stove?

Karen Smythe  1:17:16  
I have not.

Perry Allen  1:17:17  
Oh, you'll.. it'll spoil you for the rest of your life. I was not the

Karen Smythe  1:17:22  
electric stones take forever, so

Perry Allen  1:17:23  
yeah, I'm a pasta pot of water in a minute. Is it a rolling boil

Speaker 1  1:17:32  
that

Karen Smythe  1:17:32  
conduction,

Frances Uku  1:17:33  
induction?

Perry Allen  1:17:34  
Yeah, actually blew my mind. It's like Wizardry,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:17:38  
then you need special pans, right? Like, you can't use certain,

Perry Allen  1:17:41  
yeah,

Frances Uku  1:17:43  
as long as they're induction custom, you're fine with most of what you have.

Karen Smythe  1:17:47  
Interesting. All right, so back at it. So, Craig, we're talking about the Pride flag. Not sure when, when you ducked out, but the Pride flag, we have a poll back here over the last two years, one year we did the whole month of June for the for Pride month, believe it was last year we did, we put it up on the Friday and took it down on the Monday of the weekend where the Pride event happened, and so there are a couple of things that go with why we're actually talking about this, there's something called government speech, and then there's something called free speech. If you end up, if you have something that ends up being designated as free speech, you can't say no to anything, but if it's government speech, i.e. it's done consciously by the board, it's government speech, and so you can choose to not not say yes to everything, and then there's there's a fair amount of gray area in the middle. It's one of those laws that you can get lost in, but the board has felt in the past that this was an important opportunity to show support. And

Melkorka Kjarval  1:19:01  
can I explain how it came about the first time? Sure. So, when the Pride festival first was getting organized, they came to ask us if we would contact all the different village businesses and ask them to do put up Pride flags, and we said that's not our role, but we could see whether or not we feel comfortable flying one, but they didn't ask us to fly it,

Speaker 1  1:19:23  
and

Melkorka Kjarval  1:19:23  
so then it became a discussion about whether or not it was, you know, how long we wanted to do it, but it was part of their application that they, or they made a request there, and we were a little like

Amy Smith   1:19:35  
it was in their event application,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:19:36  
yeah, and it was, yeah, it was something that was outside our role to like tell business owners or ask business owners to put up flags, you know, they can do what they want, but that's how the discussion came along, and it wasn't that they asked us, it was that we were prompted by that conversation.

Perry Allen  1:19:54  
Yeah, oops, I find we're in a moment where it's imperative to be explicitly inclusive, so I'm very comfortable using our government speech as much as we can to express that.

Karen Smythe  1:20:09  
So, Perry has said that he would be open to the full month of June, flying the flag. Craig, do you have a perspective on that?

Craig Rothstein  1:20:18  
I'm very comfortable with

Speaker 1  1:20:21  
it the

Speaker 2  1:20:22  
whole month.

Craig Rothstein  1:20:23  
Yeah, I'm curious. I want to understand a bit better about the government speech. Is when basically speech is what's sanctioned or initiated by

Karen Smythe  1:20:37  
the

Craig Rothstein  1:20:37  
board, putting the flag up for the month would be an act of government speed, correct, because the government said

Melkorka Kjarval  1:20:44  
no one arrested us,

Craig Rothstein  1:20:46  
and is that how? So, where does that? Where does the why is that? I mean, this maybe is a dumb question, because I believe that there are dumb questions, but why is that relevant?

Karen Smythe  1:20:59  
Well, it's relevant. There's actually case law where, and I don't remember, maybe you remember

Frances Uku  1:21:04  
Shurtleff versus Boston,

Karen Smythe  1:21:06  
where

Frances Uku  1:21:06  
Shurtle versus Boston, Boston, Boston, yeah,

Karen Smythe  1:21:09  
Boston, yeah. So they had, they had a flag pole, and people would come with their flags, and they would, they would fly the flag, and they did that for years, and then there was a religious organization that came and said we'd like you to fly our flag, and they said, "Oh, this is separation of church and state, no, we won't fly your flag, and so they sued, and so the ruling was because they, because they said yes to anyone who came, and the first time this was the first time they said no, they said that you, that they had effectively established a pole of free speech, and that they could not say no, so that's why we have, we've, I know I have, and Milkor and I spent some time talking about, and Amy too, what, what would thinking about if we allow this, what else do we have to allow, and so sometimes when it comes to events, it's it's making sure that the parameters that we use give us the opportunity to say no to something, and so there may be a time where we decide that we don't want to go in a particular direction because we want the option to say no later.

Craig Rothstein  1:22:18  
So that case, this is not establishing a free speech flag pole,

Karen Smythe  1:22:22  
correct, correct,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:22:24  
and that's why we're being so formal about

Speaker 1  1:22:25  
it, right?

Karen Smythe  1:22:26  
Yes, all right. So, you're for the month, year for the month,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:22:30  
I'm for the

Speaker 1  1:22:31  
month.

Frances Uku  1:22:31  
Well, from my perspective, and maybe it's, it's helpful, or maybe it's not helpful going back to exactly this time last year when it did come up, and we discussed flying the Pride flag. I'm just going to read the minutes from then. Just this was for the June meeting that the Trustees discussed flying the Pride flag as part of government speech for the days around the Beckwith Pride Festival to be held at the Municipal Law. Trustee Uku stated concerns about the village participating in government speech. She indicated that she would rather the village not initiate government speech, shirt left versus Boston, as you say, it's Wade Beltrano at Nicom is a very big First Amendment guy, and I feel personally that it is sufficient that we are an inclusive open village. We, we hosted Beck Hook Pride unanimous approval to host that youth parade this year, unanimous approval. I personally do not see why that needs why we need to invite potential scrutiny, potential First Amendment challenges by having it specifically on the building. I feel that it is sufficient by hosting events, by facilitating events to show that we are an inclusive, welcoming. I just personally, for the reasons Karen and, and council being Nicom, have advised, I just don't think that it's, I don't think it's appropriate. That's, that's my view on

Melkorka Kjarval  1:24:01  
it,

Perry Allen  1:24:03  
and please,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:24:04  
oh, just that when we'd had this conversation in the past, I had said we also put out the Bard welcome students banner, because we want to make a special extra effort, because we know that, you know, it's important to Bard students. I feel the same way about the flag. I feel like it's important to families that live here to show that, you know this is a safe community, and we care about them, you know, but that's just that's my personal,

Perry Allen  1:24:26  
I think, in perhaps echoing that, as it's a, as pride is a response to being imperiled, you know, it feels

Frances Uku  1:24:39  
to be imperiled,

Perry Allen  1:24:40  
yeah, so if, if, if the Pride month is, is centered around, you know, LGBTQ plus individuals being socially imperiled in America, there's, there's a risk of that group being harmed structurally, and it's growing. I think it's has been historically noble efforts when municipalities hold the backs of those constituents in moments of crisis, and so I appreciate what you're saying, because I also don't want to get into First Amendment gray areas, but I think it's, I mean, I would probably always feel cool flying the flag, but it feels especially good right now to those who need to see it to know that we are open to being very visibly supportive,

Frances Uku  1:25:46  
floating this by you, and it's, it's take it in this most sincere intent, because that's how it's coming. Do you feel that people, that whether you feel that their points of view are abhorrent or not. Do you feel that people who don't share that view are still worthy of representation and worthy of..

Perry Allen  1:26:12  
do I think.. do I.. oh, do I think hate has a place at the table?

Frances Uku  1:26:16  
I mean, if you want to put it that way, but no,

Perry Allen  1:26:18  
no, I don't think Kate has played with the table.

Frances Uku  1:26:22  
No, no,

Perry Allen  1:26:23  
that's like that's the paradox of tolerance, I suppose, right?

Frances Uku  1:26:28  
So, so you're saying someone who, for instance, would prefer not to, someone who would prefer not to fly a flag in their own home, or where, or specifically with pride, that someone who is not up for the physical representation, or who would feel excluded if there were a pride flag flying in the village, you would be cool if they just felt okay. Well, I'm not done with that. So,

Perry Allen  1:27:04  
I'm cool with them being represented, and then we should vote on it, I suppose. And then the majority of people who have a certain perspective of who's accepted or who we want to then will be determined by the vote.

Frances Uku  1:27:19  
Okay, so we say it's so we say we fly it, and then someone comes and asks if we would be cool with flying. Well, okay, so that's a request, and this is this is coming out of us, but that's a value statement in itself, right? This is what we would be saying is important to say, but there are other things that are important to say. June happens to commemorate Juneteenth, that is another very important thing in our country. I mean, it's not to the exclusion of we're not pitting things against each other, but I'm just saying that these are all choices that we can reflect, too. I, if we flew it for all of June, then if we flew Pride, now

Melkorka Kjarval  1:27:57  
that's kind of a false flag conversation, because we've had that conversation had the schedule, and wanted to fly both flags, and you refused that conversation,

Frances Uku  1:28:06  
because it was the binary, and I'm not interested in

Speaker 1  1:28:08  
the binary. It

Melkorka Kjarval  1:28:09  
was that we do one for the weekend, and then we would do the Juneteenth for the,

Frances Uku  1:28:13  
that's two, that's two things, that's binary, right? That's two events. I'm not saying exclusive of, and those were the two things we were talking

Perry Allen  1:28:20  
about,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:28:21  
there was there was a discussion. We tried to set up a schedule because we wanted to accommodate that,

Frances Uku  1:28:27  
in which I said yes, but we would know it was not refused. What we said is, or what I said anyway, was that I would be up for if we were to fly, then we would have a flag fairness policy. However, we came up with that, and that, that seemed like it would be tricky.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:28:42  
You were set up to..

Perry Allen  1:28:44  
I actually wonder, actually wonder, and I almost like the process that we're in right now is a good flag flying process, because it keeps it relevant to the moment of representation, like you're talking about, because if every time, if every time there's a flag to be considered. We bring it up and we talk about

Speaker 1  1:29:02  
it, and

Perry Allen  1:29:03  
then we voted on his group. If there's the representation in the village that we should not fly the pride flag, then that'll, then it'll pass that way. And if there's representation in the village that we should fly the pride flag, then it is. And

Frances Uku  1:29:15  
what do you mean, representation

Perry Allen  1:29:17  
to your point of saying that are we not representing everybody? everybody, I let the votes show that I suppose, like, if let, let, let your vote stand against it as representation for those, for those who you've heard from, who are uncomfortable with the pride flag, and my vote will represent those who are comfortable with the pride flag.

Frances Uku  1:29:46  
That's an interesting way of casting. Does

Perry Allen  1:29:50  
that make sense?

Frances Uku  1:29:50  
Well, no, not really. That's not who I would be speaking for. If someone like,

Perry Allen  1:29:57  
so then who

Craig Rothstein  1:29:58  
are you gonna go to bed for the, for the, for the social issues you agree with, will you go to bat equally as a representative for the social issues you don't agree with? That seems to be one of the issues at play here. I would suggest that we are in a socio-political moment that for people of a certain persuasion demand more activist local legislators, which we are, and we are not the judiciary, so that's important, because we don't need to maintain a sort of, we're not a political body, technically, or these are not political positions, but we can be activists in decisions we make, and if it's a choice to run the Pride flag the entire month of June, that is an activist position, because it's going to provoke a known vocal, probably current minority in the, in the town. There will be complaints, you can look at Facebook, there will be people who have, but I couldn't care less, because I think it's okay that we were to sign on to something like that. I think it's also okay to fly a Juneteenth flag, which I would point out is commemorating a day, as opposed to something like Black Pride Month, which is, you know, that's the entire month, whereas June is the Pride Month. So we could fly.. I don't know if we fly flags for Black Pride Month, I would.. I would.. we

Karen Smythe  1:31:17  
have not..

Craig Rothstein  1:31:18  
Black History Month.. I would.. I would be, you know, if a flag was appropriate to that, not my decision to make unilaterally, but I would vote for that too. I think it, you know, you look at what happened, what was it at Stonewall, where the federal administration demanded things be taken down, and the local administration put them back up. The same thing happened, I think, in Boston, where they are, no, some city where they, they had to paint over the crosswalks and make them non-rainbow, so they made the sidewalks rainbow. The point is, I think it's for me, and in the current social and political moment, I like the idea of pushing back on a federal government that has quashed people's individual expression of non-traditional white conservative values, which seem to be what the administration in Washington is putting forth, so to me, but I do, I do understand there may come a time this opens a door down the road where somebody will say we want you to fly a flag and you don't agree with the values behind the flag, but

Frances Uku  1:32:21  
that's not even because it's not someone coming, it's not someone coming, but this is something that's coming out of this board, like this is the board expressing its own making government speech as to what it thinks it's important or worthy, and I think

Craig Rothstein  1:32:35  
that that I'm comfortable with that, but I understand, I do understand where you're coming from, which I think is a very valid place, and I think this is how it plays out. You get a vote that's not necessarily unanimous.

Frances Uku  1:32:51  
No, no, no, no, it's.. oh, I see. Yeah, not unanimous, but a majority.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:32:56  
I was just going to say that, like, the I believe very strongly in people's right to free speech and their right to believe what they believe and their right to say what they want, but I also believe that we were elected, and here we are, sitting, all of us elected, right, to you know, make hard choices and make choices that we believe are right, and that, you know, and also to be called to account for it, so if people are mad at us, they can yell at us, and they can come to the meetings and yell at us, you know. And I think that we are never going to make everyone happy, and we're never going to make represent everyone's viewpoint, because that's not why we're elected. We're elected to bring our own varied viewpoints and our own perspectives and experience to the table, and my own perspective and experience informs the idea that I'd be comfortable with them, so that's, but I appreciate the conversation. I appreciate the simpleness of the conversation,

Karen Smythe  1:33:54  
and I think, given that we still have a lengthy agenda, I'm going to suggest that we take a vote, so we take a motion to what I'm hearing is the month, so I'd take a motion to fly the Triflex for the month of June.

Perry Allen  1:34:09  
So moved.

Karen Smythe  1:34:10  
Second, and we will do a roll call vote. Craig,

Craig Rothstein  1:34:18  
aye.

Karen Smythe  1:34:19  
Mel Cork, aye. Perry, aye. Fran. No, I'm an aye. Okay. Thank you very much.

Perry Allen  1:34:29  
Thank you for arguing

Karen Smythe  1:34:32

All right, so back at it. So, Craig, we're talking about the Pride flag. Not sure when, when you ducked out, but the Pride flag, we have a poll back here over the last two years, one year we did the whole month of June for the for Pride month, believe it was last year we did, we put it up on the Friday and took it down on the Monday of the weekend where the Pride event happened, and so there are a couple of things that go with why we're actually talking about this, there's something called government speech, and then there's something called free speech. If you end up, if you have something that ends up being designated as free speech, you can't say no to anything, but if it's government speech, i.e. it's done consciously by the board, it's government speech, and so you can choose to not not say yes to everything, and then there's there's a fair amount of gray area in the middle. It's one of those laws that you can get lost in, but the board has felt in the past that this was an important opportunity to show support. And

Melkorka Kjarval  1:19:01  
can I explain how it came about the first time? Sure. So, when the Pride festival first was getting organized, they came to ask us if we would contact all the different village businesses and ask them to do put up Pride flags, and we said that's not our role, but we could see whether or not we feel comfortable flying one, but they didn't ask us to fly it,

Speaker 1  1:19:23  
and

Melkorka Kjarval  1:19:23  
so then it became a discussion about whether or not it was, you know, how long we wanted to do it, but it was part of their application that they, or they made a request there, and we were a little like

Amy Smith   1:19:35  
it was in their event application,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:19:36  
yeah, and it was, yeah, it was something that was outside our role to like tell business owners or ask business owners to put up flags, you know, they can do what they want, but that's how the discussion came along, and it wasn't that they asked us, it was that we were prompted by that conversation.

Perry Allen  1:19:54  
Yeah, oops, I find we're in a moment where it's imperative to be explicitly inclusive, so I'm very comfortable using our government speech as much as we can to express that.

Karen Smythe  1:20:09  
So, Perry has said that he would be open to the full month of June, flying the flag. Craig, do you have a perspective on that?

Craig Rothstein  1:20:18  
I'm very comfortable with

Speaker 1  1:20:21  
it the

Speaker 2  1:20:22  
whole month.

Craig Rothstein  1:20:23  
Yeah, I'm curious. I want to understand a bit better about the government speech. Is when basically speech is what's sanctioned or initiated by

Karen Smythe  1:20:37  
the

Craig Rothstein  1:20:37  
board, putting the flag up for the month would be an act of government speed, correct, because the government said

Melkorka Kjarval  1:20:44  
no one arrested us,

Craig Rothstein  1:20:46  
and is that how? So, where does that? Where does the why is that? I mean, this maybe is a dumb question, because I believe that there are dumb questions, but why is that relevant?

Karen Smythe  1:20:59  
Well, it's relevant. There's actually case law where, and I don't remember, maybe you remember

Frances Uku  1:21:04  
Shurtleff versus Boston,

Karen Smythe  1:21:06  
where

Frances Uku  1:21:06  
Shurtle versus Boston, Boston, Boston, yeah,

Karen Smythe  1:21:09  
Boston, yeah. So they had, they had a flag pole, and people would come with their flags, and they would, they would fly the flag, and they did that for years, and then there was a religious organization that came and said we'd like you to fly our flag, and they said, "Oh, this is separation of church and state, no, we won't fly your flag, and so they sued, and so the ruling was because they, because they said yes to anyone who came, and the first time this was the first time they said no, they said that you, that they had effectively established a pole of free speech, and that they could not say no, so that's why we have, we've, I know I have, and Milkor and I spent some time talking about, and Amy too, what, what would thinking about if we allow this, what else do we have to allow, and so sometimes when it comes to events, it's it's making sure that the parameters that we use give us the opportunity to say no to something, and so there may be a time where we decide that we don't want to go in a particular direction because we want the option to say no later.

Craig Rothstein  1:22:18  
So that case, this is not establishing a free speech flag pole,

Karen Smythe  1:22:22  
correct, correct,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:22:24  
and that's why we're being so formal about

Speaker 1  1:22:25  
it, right?

Karen Smythe  1:22:26  
Yes, all right. So, you're for the month, year for the month,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:22:30  
I'm for the

Speaker 1  1:22:31  
month.

Frances Uku  1:22:31  
Well, from my perspective, and maybe it's, it's helpful, or maybe it's not helpful going back to exactly this time last year when it did come up, and we discussed flying the Pride flag. I'm just going to read the minutes from then. Just this was for the June meeting that the Trustees discussed flying the Pride flag as part of government speech for the days around the Beckwith Pride Festival to be held at the Municipal Law. Trustee Uku stated concerns about the village participating in government speech. She indicated that she would rather the village not initiate government speech, shirt left versus Boston, as you say, it's Wade Beltrano at Nicom is a very big First Amendment guy, and I feel personally that it is sufficient that we are an inclusive open village. We, we hosted Beck Hook Pride unanimous approval to host that youth parade this year, unanimous approval. I personally do not see why that needs why we need to invite potential scrutiny, potential First Amendment challenges by having it specifically on the building. I feel that it is sufficient by hosting events, by facilitating events to show that we are an inclusive, welcoming. I just personally, for the reasons Karen and, and council being Nicom, have advised, I just don't think that it's, I don't think it's appropriate. That's, that's my view on

Melkorka Kjarval  1:24:01  
it,

Perry Allen  1:24:03  
and please,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:24:04  
oh, just that when we'd had this conversation in the past, I had said we also put out the Bard welcome students banner, because we want to make a special extra effort, because we know that, you know, it's important to Bard students. I feel the same way about the flag. I feel like it's important to families that live here to show that, you know this is a safe community, and we care about them, you know, but that's just that's my personal,

Perry Allen  1:24:26  
I think, in perhaps echoing that, as it's a, as pride is a response to being imperiled, you know, it feels

Frances Uku  1:24:39  
to be imperiled,

Perry Allen  1:24:40  
yeah, so if, if, if the Pride month is, is centered around, you know, LGBTQ plus individuals being socially imperiled in America, there's, there's a risk of that group being harmed structurally, and it's growing. I think it's has been historically noble efforts when municipalities hold the backs of those constituents in moments of crisis, and so I appreciate what you're saying, because I also don't want to get into First Amendment gray areas, but I think it's, I mean, I would probably always feel cool flying the flag, but it feels especially good right now to those who need to see it to know that we are open to being very visibly supportive,

Frances Uku  1:25:46  
floating this by you, and it's, it's take it in this most sincere intent, because that's how it's coming. Do you feel that people, that whether you feel that their points of view are abhorrent or not. Do you feel that people who don't share that view are still worthy of representation and worthy of..

Perry Allen  1:26:12  
do I think.. do I.. oh, do I think hate has a place at the table?

Frances Uku  1:26:16  
I mean, if you want to put it that way, but no,

Perry Allen  1:26:18  
no, I don't think Kate has played with the table.

Frances Uku  1:26:22  
No, no,

Perry Allen  1:26:23  
that's like that's the paradox of tolerance, I suppose, right?

Frances Uku  1:26:28  
So, so you're saying someone who, for instance, would prefer not to, someone who would prefer not to fly a flag in their own home, or where, or specifically with pride, that someone who is not up for the physical representation, or who would feel excluded if there were a pride flag flying in the village, you would be cool if they just felt okay. Well, I'm not done with that. So,

Perry Allen  1:27:04  
I'm cool with them being represented, and then we should vote on it, I suppose. And then the majority of people who have a certain perspective of who's accepted or who we want to then will be determined by the vote.

Frances Uku  1:27:19  
Okay, so we say it's so we say we fly it, and then someone comes and asks if we would be cool with flying. Well, okay, so that's a request, and this is this is coming out of us, but that's a value statement in itself, right? This is what we would be saying is important to say, but there are other things that are important to say. June happens to commemorate Juneteenth, that is another very important thing in our country. I mean, it's not to the exclusion of we're not pitting things against each other, but I'm just saying that these are all choices that we can reflect, too. I, if we flew it for all of June, then if we flew Pride, now

Melkorka Kjarval  1:27:57  
that's kind of a false flag conversation, because we've had that conversation had the schedule, and wanted to fly both flags, and you refused that conversation,

Frances Uku  1:28:06  
because it was the binary, and I'm not interested in

Speaker 1  1:28:08  
the binary. It

Melkorka Kjarval  1:28:09  
was that we do one for the weekend, and then we would do the Juneteenth for the,

Frances Uku  1:28:13  
that's two, that's two things, that's binary, right? That's two events. I'm not saying exclusive of, and those were the two things we were talking

Perry Allen  1:28:20  
about,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:28:21  
there was there was a discussion. We tried to set up a schedule because we wanted to accommodate that,

Frances Uku  1:28:27  
in which I said yes, but we would know it was not refused. What we said is, or what I said anyway, was that I would be up for if we were to fly, then we would have a flag fairness policy. However, we came up with that, and that, that seemed like it would be tricky.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:28:42  
You were set up to..

Perry Allen  1:28:44  
I actually wonder, actually wonder, and I almost like the process that we're in right now is a good flag flying process, because it keeps it relevant to the moment of representation, like you're talking about, because if every time, if every time there's a flag to be considered. We bring it up and we talk about

Speaker 1  1:29:02  
it, and

Perry Allen  1:29:03  
then we voted on his group. If there's the representation in the village that we should not fly the pride flag, then that'll, then it'll pass that way. And if there's representation in the village that we should fly the pride flag, then it is. And

Frances Uku  1:29:15  
what do you mean, representation

Perry Allen  1:29:17  
to your point of saying that are we not representing everybody? everybody, I let the votes show that I suppose, like, if let, let, let your vote stand against it as representation for those, for those who you've heard from, who are uncomfortable with the pride flag, and my vote will represent those who are comfortable with the pride flag.

Frances Uku  1:29:46  
That's an interesting way of casting. Does

Perry Allen  1:29:50  
that make sense?

Frances Uku  1:29:50  
Well, no, not really. That's not who I would be speaking for. If someone like,

Perry Allen  1:29:57  
so then who

Craig Rothstein  1:29:58  
are you gonna go to bed for the, for the, for the social issues you agree with, will you go to bat equally as a representative for the social issues you don't agree with? That seems to be one of the issues at play here. I would suggest that we are in a socio-political moment that for people of a certain persuasion demand more activist local legislators, which we are, and we are not the judiciary, so that's important, because we don't need to maintain a sort of, we're not a political body, technically, or these are not political positions, but we can be activists in decisions we make, and if it's a choice to run the Pride flag the entire month of June, that is an activist position, because it's going to provoke a known vocal, probably current minority in the, in the town. There will be complaints, you can look at Facebook, there will be people who have, but I couldn't care less, because I think it's okay that we were to sign on to something like that. I think it's also okay to fly a Juneteenth flag, which I would point out is commemorating a day, as opposed to something like Black Pride Month, which is, you know, that's the entire month, whereas June is the Pride Month. So we could fly.. I don't know if we fly flags for Black Pride Month, I would.. I would.. we

Karen Smythe  1:31:17  
have not..

Craig Rothstein  1:31:18  
Black History Month.. I would.. I would be, you know, if a flag was appropriate to that, not my decision to make unilaterally, but I would vote for that too. I think it, you know, you look at what happened, what was it at Stonewall, where the federal administration demanded things be taken down, and the local administration put them back up. The same thing happened, I think, in Boston, where they are, no, some city where they, they had to paint over the crosswalks and make them non-rainbow, so they made the sidewalks rainbow. The point is, I think it's for me, and in the current social and political moment, I like the idea of pushing back on a federal government that has quashed people's individual expression of non-traditional white conservative values, which seem to be what the administration in Washington is putting forth, so to me, but I do, I do understand there may come a time this opens a door down the road where somebody will say we want you to fly a flag and you don't agree with the values behind the flag, but

Frances Uku  1:32:21  
that's not even because it's not someone coming, it's not someone coming, but this is something that's coming out of this board, like this is the board expressing its own making government speech as to what it thinks it's important or worthy, and I think

Craig Rothstein  1:32:35  
that that I'm comfortable with that, but I understand, I do understand where you're coming from, which I think is a very valid place, and I think this is how it plays out. You get a vote that's not necessarily unanimous.

Frances Uku  1:32:51  
No, no, no, no, it's.. oh, I see. Yeah, not unanimous, but a majority.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:32:56  
I was just going to say that, like, the I believe very strongly in people's right to free speech and their right to believe what they believe and their right to say what they want, but I also believe that we were elected, and here we are, sitting, all of us elected, right, to you know, make hard choices and make choices that we believe are right, and that, you know, and also to be called to account for it, so if people are mad at us, they can yell at us, and they can come to the meetings and yell at us, you know. And I think that we are never going to make everyone happy, and we're never going to make represent everyone's viewpoint, because that's not why we're elected. We're elected to bring our own varied viewpoints and our own perspectives and experience to the table, and my own perspective and experience informs the idea that I'd be comfortable with them, so that's, but I appreciate the conversation. I appreciate the simpleness of the conversation,

Karen Smythe  1:33:54  
and I think, given that we still have a lengthy agenda, I'm going to suggest that we take a vote, so we take a motion to what I'm hearing is the month, so I'd take a motion to fly the Triflex for the month of June.

Perry Allen  1:34:09  
So moved.

Karen Smythe  1:34:10  
Second, and we will do a roll call vote. Craig,

Craig Rothstein  1:34:18  
aye.

Karen Smythe  1:34:19  
Mel Cork, aye. Perry, aye. Fran. No, I'm an aye. Okay. Thank you very much.

Perry Allen  1:34:29  
Thank you for arguing

Karen Smythe  1:34:32  
that

Craig Rothstein  1:34:34  
with me.

Perry Allen  1:34:41  
It's good to have the way you like to grow up.

Craig Rothstein  1:34:46  
Oh,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:34:49  
all

Karen Smythe  1:34:52  
right. The next item is Wetland Rehabilitation Task Force, I I will just make a, make a couple of comments. I have some issues with some of the whereas is that you have, but I am very, very supportive of establishing this task force, and I think this is a terrific idea. I am the other piece is, I don't, I don't think we're at a point to indicate like the last sentence you have is the intention is to move toward on the ground rehabilitation efforts as soon as possible. I'm not comfortable with that statement because I think we have a lot of information and we have a lot of learning to do. The other piece that's also not not noted in here is there's a DEC easement on this property, so any and everything that's done as it relates to this has to be run by DEC, and I don't know, I don't know what that looks like or what they would expect, but that's why I think establishing the task force, it sort of, you know, because there aren't any members here, this is just to say we want to establish this task force. We're acknowledging that we have this wetland. We're acknowledging that there are a variety of things that have happened, starting with, I mean, way back, actually, Bard College has testing information from the 70s, which was before even read how commons wastewater treatment plant, because the I, you know, when I first heard we had a pie factory, I immediately thought of cherries and apples, and the fact that it's a meat packing pie plant that would discharge all sorts of nasty stuff into the ground, so there's a long history, and I want to make sure that we're not uniquely focusing on the wastewater treatment plant, because we certainly had a year of a year, arguably plus a little, where we were discharging partially or untreated wastewater, very true, but wastewater goes through the ground and it dissipates, so the issues really, it's not a long-term issue from the discharge, and we have not discharged significant, actually, since June. The only discharge that we've had that's been in noncompliance has been partially treated, and I will note we have had no non-compliance events since february 24 and so I just want to make sure that we're not putting in this, that we're blaming everything on the wastewater treatment plant. You might imagine a little sensitive to that.

Perry Allen  1:37:37  
Certainly,

Karen Smythe  1:37:37  
so it's really, so I guess for me it's really just wanting to frame it as this is a wonderful opportunity, and it's I also want to make sure that to me I don't want to charge this group to re.. what's the word I want there.. there was a full cleanup that was done by DEC into.. I think it finished in either 2000 It probably had to be 2006 I don't want to re-litigate that. We have all the testing. They've even - they came back twice last year, at least twice last year, to re-look at everything, and they said everything. If you haven't seen those documents, let me know. I will make sure you have them. They have been shared publicly, they, and so I want to make sure that we're not going to do, you know, testing, etc. because that's really not.. I don't think that's a good use of our time and resources. I think the best use is to say, what.. what's the condition? What's the current condition of the wastewater of the wetland. What are the inputs to the wetlands? Because I think from the pond area that's probably getting storm water from Route nine, and you've got, you've got runoff from Red Hook Estates, that's going into the other side, and then farther up, well, that's not going into the wetlands, so that's not the same. So I think to establish this group to say let's evaluate the let's evaluate the health of the wetland and evaluate the inputs, then say, you know, because I think there's some initial testing in various areas to say what are the inputs, what does it look like, and then say okay, now what can we do, because I had, I had a meeting with Karen Schneller McDonald, who used to be the chair of the waste of the Sawki watershed community, and she is a wetland restoration expert, and because I kept hearing erosion, erosion, I'm like, where's the erosion coming from, because the quantity of water liquid that's coming out of the wastewater treatment plant, it's just not that much, and so when we talked about it, she said, well, there's all this silt and that sort of thing. Well, effectively, where it appears to be coming from is the runoff from red estates, because there's a, there's a decline, and so as all the storm water comes, it's going to take some of the some of

Frances Uku  1:39:58  
the top soil

Karen Smythe  1:40:00  
with it, and that's that really appears to be what's creating the the erosion, so I'm like, okay, it doesn't mean there's no erosion, but let's not blame it on the floor treatment discharge, so that's that's really what I want to,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:40:12  
can I add a, of course,

Karen Smythe  1:40:15  
I just, I shared my thoughts,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:40:17  
yeah, yeah, first off, this is great, and it's awesome, I also am wondering, does it have to be just that area? Can it be like storm water in general, and like resilience in general, or do we want to? I always want to increase the scope, so Karen, right now.

Frances Uku  1:40:33  
So,

Karen Smythe  1:40:35  
here's what,

Speaker 1  1:40:35  
here's

Karen Smythe  1:40:35  
what I'm going to suggest. I'm going to suggest that we, and arguably, instead of calling it the wastewater treatment plant, what wetland rehabilitation task force, maybe we call it a wetland task, and the first

Perry Allen  1:40:46  
project is this one, is

Karen Smythe  1:40:48  
this one, and then, and obviously we can always change it, you know, we can always say down the road we want to expand its, its role or its charge, from the, I would like very much, because one of the issues with expanding too much too quickly is you then lose focus, and then you don't really get anywhere.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:41:06  
I should know this. I just.. I.. there's a lot of like storm water resilience, sort of like you know, you can do studies to like sort of.. there are a lot of places in the village that could, you know, benefit, but

Perry Allen  1:41:18  
I definitely agree, and that's something I'd be personally passionate about pursuing the three local environmental scientists who I've spoken to already, who are passionate about embarking on this, are Zoe Evans. Sorry, my sickness, I can tell, is was there Rogers, Michelle Gluck,

Karen Smythe  1:41:42  
Susan Rogers,

Perry Allen  1:41:43  
Susan Rogers. I haven't been able to touch base with yet because she is currently abroad on

Karen Smythe  1:41:48  
an avian exhibition. She's

Perry Allen  1:41:50  
incredible. Yeah, no, I would like to wrap her in. And is Alice

Speaker 1  1:41:55  
Michelle

Perry Allen  1:41:56  
Sandor, Amanda Sandor? Thank you. Thank you very much. I can feel the cold is rising again. They're all very passionate about the

Karen Smythe  1:42:06  
second one.

Perry Allen  1:42:07  
Michelle Gluck, who also serves on the Climate Smart Committee and works for Ulster County as well in one of their environmental programs.

Karen Smythe  1:42:15  
Yeah, so say Amanda works for the Ulster County Soil and Water,

Perry Allen  1:42:17  
so I..

Karen Smythe  1:42:19  
she lives in the town over here, and then Michelle lives in a village.

Perry Allen  1:42:23  
Yes, only one is a village resident in that way. Is that a, is that okay in terms of our operations? Because I know all three are very passionate to at least volunteer their

Karen Smythe  1:42:33  
services. I was going to say, here's one thought, and this would be a question of what, what the makeup is, I think having experts is, is, is going to be very valuable. The other question would be, does it make sense to have some interested folks who might live on Smith Street, for example?

Perry Allen  1:42:50  
Yes, I agree,

Karen Smythe  1:42:51  
as a, as a possible, and again, not everybody, but I think there might be a thought as to there may be some folks who are a little more engaged and a little bit more, because you don't want someone to come in and just say everything's terrible and we can't do anything about it, or you know that you want someone who's productive, but there may be a couple folks, because I, he would be great. Do you know Chris Solomon,

Perry Allen  1:43:18  
Julia Solomon's husband, not personally.

Karen Smythe  1:43:21  
He works for Cary Institute, and he's a, he's aquatic restoration. I would

Melkorka Kjarval  1:43:28  
like for you

Perry Allen  1:43:31  
to please connect me with whoever, and I will talk

Karen Smythe  1:43:36  
to live over there might, might be an interesting one or two, not overwhelming the committee, I spoke. I had forgotten two months ago I said yes to being the speaker for the Rotary this morning, and there's a woman who lives on Benner Road, and she has like a little sliver in the village, and she's interested, because I mentioned that I actually mentioned that I was hoping we'd agree with this tonight, and she mentioned that she's really interested. She's not sure who wants, she wants to be on the committee, and I said, "Well, there'll be.. it'll be a public meeting, so you can always go to the meeting and see what.. well, it depends on what, and I'm like, "I get it. I said, "But you know, we'll make it public, so you're aware, and you can come and sort of either give you two cents or just listen, so I think that may be a way, but I think the piece that's going to be important is to say what is our charge, you know, what is it that we are charging this committee with, and I think it's to come up with a plan to evaluate, you know, so pull together the history, come up with a plan to evaluate, and, and certainly, I mean, I think looking at potential funding sources, I think possibly before the well, the funding sources may, you know, it's part of it, is what's the plan to sort of assess

Perry Allen  1:45:00  
that was the last thing, and then there's funding. What's the proposal for here?

Karen Smythe  1:45:04  
And then you do the assessment, and then you come up with more funding to do the restoration stuff, because first you're going to need money to assess what you've got, and then you're going to need money to actually implement the plan that you come up with. You probably need money to come up with the plan too.

Perry Allen  1:45:19  
I was gonna say the coming up with the plan as well, so the one part we didn't say yes. Okay, great. I mean, I agree with this. I think I'm comfortable striking whatever we need to, because I care mostly about just this far starting. So,

Karen Smythe  1:45:35  
here's what I'm, here's what I'm going to recommend.

Karen Smythe  1:45:37  
Yeah,

Karen Smythe  1:45:37  
that we don't vote on this tonight, that we rework

Perry Allen  1:45:43  
uncomfortable redrafting based off of coming back to it,

Karen Smythe  1:45:47  
because I think when we've established, I mean, we're calling this a task force, we can call it a committee, you know,

Frances Uku  1:45:53  
I like committee,

Perry Allen  1:45:54  
I wanted to hear,

Perry Allen  1:46:02  
like it

Karen Smythe  1:46:09  
sounds active, I'll shoot an email to Nicom, and say, what do you see? What do you see the differences between task force and community? Someone had told me that task forces are generally created by the mayor at the at the mayor's entire whim was not the word that was used, but and so I don't, this is going to be, and so I think it may end up making more sense to call it a committee because we have a formal process for that that we went through last year, so but then with that it'll we'll talk about how many members, how many, how many we want from who live in the village

Frances Uku  1:46:47  
terms,

Karen Smythe  1:46:49  
you know. And then we can have the charge of, and we can create the charge that says, you know, sort of the overall charge is to focus on, you know, to start with focusing on the wastewater treatment plant wetland, we need to come up with a name, it can't be the wastewater,

Perry Allen  1:47:04  
whereas I tried to

Perry Allen  1:47:05  
loop with the Red Hood, used

Karen Smythe  1:47:08  
to be called Mazinos Pond,

Perry Allen  1:47:11  
I like that,

Frances Uku  1:47:19  
but then you'd have to educate this one, what is what is Mazinos Wetland? I don't know,

Karen Smythe  1:47:26  
it's a.. there's.. it's.. it's in the.. isn't it in the comprehensive plan?

Melkorka Kjarval  1:47:31  
I think our

Karen Smythe  1:47:32  
big one, and

Perry Allen  1:47:36  
a few docs with

Frances Uku  1:47:38  
it. Just into.. if this is something that you're envisioning being able to go into the community and get buy-in right away, and start work, like, just, you know, just introducing a new name, and if it's, if it's a tricky to get your mouth around name, it just might be, you want some, I hear what you mean, something, but on the, on the, on the flip side, it actually, for those who've been here a long time, they're very familiar with Massanos Pond. I mean, not, not new folks, but so there are definitely those who are familiar with Massanos Pond,

Karen Smythe  1:48:08  
and there are.. I mean, it used to be.. there's a whole history. So, the flip side, I understand what you're saying, but the other way is by introducing this name, you're validating it to the history, and there'll be somebody in there, say, well, where'd that

Perry Allen  1:48:22  
finally,

Karen Smythe  1:48:23  
and so that can also be part of the description of the wetland, because part of it, I think, is to understand the history, and it just needs to not be the wastewater treatment plant wetland, it's like that's too many words anyway, so anyway, I mean, obviously the it can be different, but you're right, it, it is a, it is a pond. We should have, we should do a session where we all walk back there, pretty cool.

Perry Allen  1:48:51  
Actually, having a chance to get into

Speaker 1  1:48:53  
the wetlands,

Karen Smythe  1:48:54  
I have some of it's a little bush whacking, but it's, it's pretty cool back

Speaker 1  1:48:58  
there.

Perry Allen  1:49:00  
And I just want to say this as well, before we move on, and then I'm happy to edit this. Thank you so much for thoughts and support on this. I really believe in this. I put this under my project list simply because I feel like I have the energy for it, you know, and I think I have a certain skill in just project direction and management, not because I necessarily feel like I'm an expert in the rehabilitation process, but that's why we'll bring in all of these

Karen Smythe  1:49:24  
people, and then you'll get someone else to chair the committee.

Perry Allen  1:49:26  
Yeah, yeah, sure. Fair enough.

Karen Smythe  1:49:28  
I don't have any, I don't have any issue with that. I know anybody else is leaping forward to say that's got to be mine. I think

Melkorka Kjarval  1:49:39  
sewer liaison, you have like a lot of there's going to have a lot more knowledge as you go,

Perry Allen  1:49:43  
yeah,

Speaker 1  1:49:44  
fantastic.

Perry Allen  1:49:45  
Thank you. All right, I'll come back to the next meeting.

Karen Smythe  1:49:48  
So, one, so let's, let's work together, let's look at the past format that we've used for other committees, and then maybe we can also have an initial members to start at our at our next meeting as a possibility, and if not, we can say we'll add them later, but, but I think that's, I think, yeah, no, I think this is great.

Perry Allen  1:50:09  
Okay, perfect. Thank you. This was fun to write a resolution. Never, never written a resolution in my life.

Karen Smythe  1:50:16  
You can't say that. Okay, so Perry, you had brought up the notion of speed limit and traffic, and what have you, and I mentioned in going back, this is not a new topic, it's also not a topic unique to us. There's a mayors and supervisors association of Dutchess County that I, that meets monthly, and every community in Dutchess County is talking about it, and frankly, it's, it's definitely statewide, it's probably countywide, and so it is an ongoing kind of forever issue, but we as a board have actually been working on a couple of projects related to that. So Mel Crook had put together a summary, so I'm going to let you,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:50:59  
yeah, and it's all everyone else's work, so just basically just getting everyone up to speed with what's happened so far. So basically, the village has an area speed zone, which means that you know we have 30 miles per hour within the village that includes the New York State and Dutch County roads as well, and there is, we have it in our code, but it's also because that's a lap that was what was the minimum allowed by the state, the state in august 12, 2022 allowed villages and cities to reduce speed limits to 25 miles per hour, but you have to go through a process, one of the I did these two diagrams just to show when you have an area speed limit, you only have to put signs up at the, you know, boundaries of the entry roads, which means that when they get hit by a plow truck or they fade, you know that when you're replacing them and maintaining them, you only have to do those spots, but it's hard to see because this is black and white, but if you could, if we did an area speed limit for the just not area speed limit, we did speed limit for just village roads, we'd have to sign all along the New York state routes, unless we get them to authorize changing the speed limit. So basically, the law that that she passed in 2022 yes, so said that you have to have a professional engineer that specializes in traffic operations that consults with the MU TCD, which is it's an acronym for, like, this DOT Federal Guide on Safety Regulations, and how you design streets. Anyway, so you basically have to get a report that says this is safe to do and it's recommended, so that's and the other problem that's hard, as I've mentioned before, is that we have the state routes that go through and we also have a county route and they're the ones that are authorized, they would have to drop those feelings on those roads themselves, so Trustee Kim Bradley Rickard, she took on the project when she was after she was elected, and so she worked on getting a proposal from Creighton Manning, an engineering firm, to get an actual professional traffic study for the village, and then she left in 2025 and Trustee Amy Smith took up the project, and so she's been working on implementing the school speed zone part of that recommendation from that traffic study. So, there's two things that we went for: one was reducing the speed limit as an area, so also on the state routes, and the other was doing a speed zone around the school, which would be just during school hours on Linden and on

Karen Smythe  1:53:52  
199

Melkorka Kjarval  1:53:53  
199 Thank you. Sorry to get tired. Basically, the packet was set in. They requested letters, so Amy got letters from Janet Warden and Bob Elkin to, because it's a county

Karen Smythe  1:54:06  
road, county DPW

Melkorka Kjarval  1:54:07  
commissioner. Yes, because it's Linden as a county road for letters of support. So they have the packet, they are reviewing it. I called them today, they are still reviewing it there. It's they have an investigator, a safety group, a regional traffic safety group investigator that is reviewing the request and making sure it's safe, and you know that we basically ask for the max amount of distance that we can get, and then they'll let us know what they think is safe and appropriate, and what kind of signage we need to get, and all that sort of stuff, and then the cost of implementing the school speed zone. There's a rolling New York state grant that Amy has identified that she thinks we'll be able to get to pay for those specific speeds, see speed signs, and the hope is that we get this approved, we get this speed zone for the school, and it's like almost like a proof of concept. And then we go, we ask the DMT for doing the stage, for instance, and then we drop it throughout the whole village. We don't have to do something like the town did, which is where they have, you know, just neighborhoods or little areas that, you know,

Speaker 1  1:55:09  
just

Frances Uku  1:55:10  
make a village.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:55:11  
Yeah, we all deserve to have people going. Yeah. Oh, and then the last thing is interesting, that our assembly representative is working as a bill in committee about allowing the municipalities to drop the speed limit on state routes, so I don't know when I'll get out of committee. There's also the same bill in the state senate committee as well, but we can always write a letter saying we support

Melkorka Kjarval  1:55:36  
it.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:55:40  
Yeah, you could take

Robert McKeon  1:55:42  
it. Thank you.

Karen Smythe  1:55:44  
So, that covers that covers the school speed limit, school speed zone, and the 25 mile an hour. That's sort of where we are with those projects. I do want to add, we've also talked about speed bumps, speed humps, and I know there's specific difference between hump and bump. I never remember what they are, I've actually been working with DPW foreman Jake for a while in the fall. I said it's so I've had several conversations with him. He does not like them, he does not want them, because if you have a permanent one when you're snow plowing, it's problematic, because just imagine snow storms usually come at night, so it's dark, and then you've got all the snow that's coming at you. You really, you really not seeing, even if there are signs, you might not see it. It doesn't mean that they shouldn't know their roads, very true, but it has the potential to damage the plow, and and so it's really the winter time where it becomes problematic. Told me a

Melkorka Kjarval  1:56:44  
terrifying story about how the blade that they have in the front of the snow plow, which they have to replace because it gets dulled, once popped off and came through a windshield.

Frances Uku  1:56:52  
Jesus,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:56:53  
it's like it's dangerous what they do. So I can understand how you'd want it to be safe, but there

Frances Uku  1:56:59  
are speed limit, not not bumps and humps.

Karen Smythe  1:57:03  
There are well, however, just because you lower the speed limit doesn't mean people will slow down.

Frances Uku  1:57:07  
Well, sure,

Karen Smythe  1:57:08  
but there are temporary speed bump

Speaker 1  1:57:11  
hump,

Karen Smythe  1:57:11  
and so I had said to Jake in the fall, you pick, you pick the type, because there are hundreds of different types, and the guy never came out when winter came, and what have

Speaker 1  1:57:22  
you.

Karen Smythe  1:57:22  
The guy's actually coming tomorrow, and so hopefully I can join him, and we will look at the different types. And the plan at this point is to start on, and this is temporary, so we're not - that's it's because we can also take it up if it's really terrible.

Frances Uku  1:57:37  
So it's like a pilot right now. You're going to,

Karen Smythe  1:57:39  
yeah, it's going to be a pilot, and we're going to start on Fisk Street, and the reason why we're going to start on Fisk Street is because, I mean, there are a variety, whole variety of reasons, but two, three months ago there was someone who was speeding coming off Route Nine into Fisk, and they actually ran into the fire hydrant that's right there by the water, if anybody had been walking there. If anybody, I mean, it was not.. it would not.. it would have been a fatality.

Perry Allen  1:58:05  
Someone told me a story. Watched it through the window happened, and they were..

Karen Smythe  1:58:09  
yeah, I was actually over there yesterday, because I walked over to the VFW, and I'm like, yeah, maybe not right at the.. so we'll.. and when I talked to Jake about it, he's like, 'Well, there's another spot farther down before you make blind, so we'll figure, so I think we'll probably do two on Fisk Street, because Fisk Street is also a very, very regular cut through, and the problem, and I also thought that maybe we should think about a sign that says slow down, you know, our children are playing, kind of thing. It doesn't mean that there aren't many other places that we can consider same, but I think part of it will be understanding what whatever type Jake picks is like and how people react to

Speaker 1  1:58:49  
it,

Karen Smythe  1:58:50  
and the question is going to be, if people passing through don't like it, I think I will be a little, I care a little less, I will care more about the people who live in the community as to how they feel about it, so once Jake picks the one he wants, we get a price. Then we'll come back with, but that's something I don't expect it to be a whole to be all that expensive. I really don't. And then I'll probably just make an effort to maybe knock on some doors along this street to say, hey, by the way, this is coming. So

Perry Allen  1:59:21  
when I was canvassing it with a concern brought up among around the village, but then especially over my neighbors, would that was something those living on Fifth Street, every single one brought up too, so you're gonna get a lot of support for that,

Karen Smythe  1:59:38  
and if you've ever walked along there, you know exactly what they're talking

Perry Allen  1:59:41  
about. My kids do, and they take that curve when we get very nervous.

Karen Smythe  1:59:45  
So, so that seemed like a logical place to start. And, as I say, I don't know that we need a huge number. I will, I mean, I live on Park Avenue, it's a very straight road.

Perry Allen  1:59:54  
I bet that's used as a cut through Elizabeth. We, that's

Karen Smythe  1:59:57  
a, yeah, use

Perry Allen  1:59:58  
that to get to firehouse.

Karen Smythe  2:00:01  
So, you know, think about it. I don't think we need, I don't think we need speed humps everywhere, but I do think could be

Melkorka Kjarval  2:00:06  
temporary, and they just move

Speaker 1  2:00:08  
around,

Perry Allen  2:00:09  
keep it

Perry Allen  2:00:16  
intermittent.

Karen Smythe  2:00:18  
There will be signs that will be too happy, just side of it. So, do

Melkorka Kjarval  2:00:22  
you remember those? I know we're getting late, but do you remember those dolls in the 90s that were like kid-sized with my sister, big sister? No,

Perry Allen  2:00:30  
you don't remember them.

Melkorka Kjarval  2:00:31  
They sold them, they were like kid size anyway. My point was, I was driving in Connecticut last summer, and there was someone that had like pretend lemonade stand that said slow down, and they were fake kids, but it did make

Karen Smythe  2:00:46  
that's a little like putting the cop car with it has nobody in it. We're all getting very creative.

Speaker 1  2:00:52  
I love it.

Karen Smythe  2:00:52  
All right, so that's that's the update on that. Perry, you wanted to talk about, well, yeah, you want to talk about school writing. So let's do that.

Perry Allen  2:00:59  
School lighting, we on our first meeting, we had that executive session, and then afterward, since I should say, I've had so many people reaching out to me regularly about it that I feel it would be that I must represent the concern, and it's actually the only thing that people continue to keep reaching out to me about,

Karen Smythe  2:01:32  
and different individuals

Perry Allen  2:01:34  
as well. I've had total. I don't want to misspeak. I can say this week three as of today, three different individuals who knew that the meeting was coming up and wanted to make sure

Karen Smythe  2:01:53  
were any of them village residents, because the email that you sent us is actually they're not village residents.

Perry Allen  2:01:59  
The books, I believe they,

Karen Smythe  2:02:01  
Paul and Ellen, are not village residents. Their daughter, Michelle, is, but

Perry Allen  2:02:05  
they're property owners, though. If I'm not mistaken, they just haven't moved in yet. And I think part of the concern they express in you is

Karen Smythe  2:02:13  
they live in tradition.

Perry Allen  2:02:15  
Is that where the property is?

Karen Smythe  2:02:17  
That's where that's where Ellen and Paul live.

Perry Allen  2:02:20  
Oh, interesting, I so that,

Karen Smythe  2:02:25  
and I don't,

Perry Allen  2:02:27  
I don't mean to disparage, I just, I know that I think he reached out as since he has legal and trustee experience, but on behalf of his daughter, who is in the village, and those who also, that's just one there, that's one of a few different individuals who have reached out, and I understand that we don't have the property rights to have the argument as to whether or not we want to stop this project. I don't think anybody's trying to even stop this project, but I'm just wondering if we can help facilitate a conversation between those who are concerned and those who feel powerless to the school board, who is seeming to move forward.

Frances Uku  2:03:16  
I mean, it seems like that would be like it would be a question of whether the school board is done, like if they are still interested, I mean, because they received, they received no email from, and again, this is something that, that I actually read out, read about in the press, hence my bringing it up at the meeting to kind of get more clarification on, but from what I understand, and I'm open to being corrected, is that the school district heard from village representation from legal that the village had no objection to their seeking. No,

Melkorka Kjarval  2:03:56  
that's what was written in the press. That's what was

Perry Allen  2:03:58  
not even trying to circumvent.

Frances Uku  2:04:01  
I'm just saying things that they're

Karen Smythe  2:04:05  
the school attorney determined that they did not have to go through our process.

Frances Uku  2:04:10  
The school attorney,

Karen Smythe  2:04:12  
yes, this was from the school attorney.

Frances Uku  2:04:14  
Okay,

Perry Allen  2:04:16  
and I'm not trying to fight their process at all,

Karen Smythe  2:04:18  
do anything formally.

Perry Allen  2:04:21  
Yeah, I'm not trying to get in the way of the process. I'm almost trying to enhance the process by making it as relevant to the neighbors' needs, or not even

Craig Rothstein  2:04:32  
speak to

Melkorka Kjarval  2:04:32  
the school board, like go to a school board meeting and say that you're concerned as an individual elected official, you could do that.

Perry Allen  2:04:39  
I mean, I'm happy to do it in on an individual capacity, I suppose. If there's, if there's not motivation otherwise. Yeah, sure.

Karen Smythe  2:04:46  
So, so I want to, so I do want to clarify, because all of all of the comments that did come in to the villages planning board that were forwarded to the school, they have them all, so they have all the comments.

Perry Allen  2:05:00  
Okay,

Karen Smythe  2:05:00  
I also had a letter from a constituent who lives right next to it with a whole three page email, and this person said I'm going to, I'm going to meet with the school, and the email I got after that was I feel so much better today after our meeting with Dr. Hayes, Janet Warden, and the folks from the Lighting Company. All of my concerns were addressed, and I look forward to sharing as much tomorrow at the public hearing that didn't happen, and so that's an indication of someone who had very specific concerns about everything met with the school. Every indication that I've had is that the school has been very open to meeting with anyone who has reached out to say I want to meet, and there also comes and, and the other that's also tricky is that the funding this project was approved by vote a year ago, and so some of the wait, this is happening, it's a little tricky when you're already halfway down the process, and I mean it's unfortunate that the process with planning board started and sort of created the sense that there was more to more to do, but I think, and so you had referenced, or in the email that you forwarded, that would reference Scarsdale, and that the village board was very involved, and so I actually looked it up, and I actually found the resolution that the board passed. There are major differences in that project, because the property of the field is owned by the village, and also the funding is private funding, so in this situation it's Board of Education funding. The Board of Education has reviewed the plans and said yes, and so yes. While the statement is that the village can choose to have a role, there's also a limit legally as to what we can restrict. There are there are certain things that we as a village can't say to a school that you can't do, and there you know there's, there's more. So I think the notion that we as a board have authority to do a lot is not necessarily correct, and the notion that people are thinking they don't have representation school, school board members are effectively the same thing as we are for the school, so I guess the question is, there's certainly people who are concerned about what it's going to turn into, but in terms of how many times they use the lights. I know a lot in many of these. When you look at other situations, similar noise is an issue. I mean, that's coming from the school. That's really up to the school to regulate. The school can have a policy about, you know, what it is. So, I guess I would wonder what role we could play, or what goal it would be.

Melkorka Kjarval  2:08:03  
What's the problem you're trying to solve? Like, how do we.. like, you know what I mean? What's..

Perry Allen  2:08:07  
I think the problem I'm trying to solve, even personally, when I consider the.. the.. I don't want to.. it's a.. so I sometimes I feel speaking out against school projects makes you seem like you're not in support of, I'm very much in support of schools and athletics and everything, but it does feel as though it's an attempt to generate an athletics complex that can be rented out, and I think that that is a change of character to the flow of our village,

Karen Smythe  2:08:42  
and I think that is something that I don't believe they've ever stated,

Frances Uku  2:08:47  
that's definitely

Perry Allen  2:08:48  
no, because I don't think that would fly, but I think that

Melkorka Kjarval  2:08:52  
can they do that,

Craig Rothstein  2:08:57  
yeah, because a lot of the arguments for the turf, at least, that I was hearing was that it's multi-use, and you could have it used much more than right, ADA compliance, all of these, you know, like we can have a lot more games, and we can have other districts come into our field more often. I think that gave that there was a whiff of, like, oh, this could be, you know, a multi-purpose field. How far are you going to go with that?

Karen Smythe  2:09:26  
And I think, I think the notion is, when a district comes, they're coming to play your team, and you're having more, more usually try and balance that anyway, or

Craig Rothstein  2:09:38  
sports, more kinds of sports. I mean, I know that now they've fenced part of it all, something somebody was complaining, but

Karen Smythe  2:09:44  
because part of the part of the part of the capital project that was approved a year ago included redoing the track, correct? So I'm not sure if they stay or the track is so bad that they, nobody can use it anyway. I'm not sure what, I'm not sure, but, but again, there's also, you know, the other is there is a public forum for the school. People can go to the school board, and they really are in a position to, to, you know, and then people can be elected to the school board when they state that I will make sure that we never rent out the, you know, the football field, or whatever it's officially called. I don't think that we as a village have the authority to say to the school, you can't rent out your property, because we don't, we don't own it.

Perry Allen  2:10:30  
And I'm not trying to insinuate anyway that I'm even trying to put official regulations against what the school should or should not do, but I'm wondering if we could facilitate this conversation in terms of that, and perhaps they're willing to, even if it's literally just that, an ongoing conversation, and so that there is what I feel legitimate perspective being regularly shared to we talk a lot about maintaining the character of Red Hook, and that's why everybody moved here, and that's why all of these conversations center around character, and I do think that if we, if I do think having a football field that has 20 plus games going in the middle of the village, it's a different thing than we've had, for better or worse, or as long as it is wide, and not that that shouldn't happen, but maybe there is a role of the village to help facilitate that being as within our character as possible. I think that's what

Speaker 1  2:11:41  
I'm trying to

Frances Uku  2:11:41  
say, not to put more on your plate, a lot on your plate, but if you were interested in it, like my Calcutta said, if you were interested in approaching the school district in a very chill way, just to find out if there's any interest in, in that kind of thing, is that, is that something any anyone else would be? I like the way you know that you presented the concerns of, although the Glucks don't live in the village, but it definitely does feel, and I have received emails, they're not loads, to one being from Rick East, and another constituent that

Karen Smythe  2:12:21  
Rick East was the one that I, that was from him,

Frances Uku  2:12:24  
aha, about being satisfied, and great. So, but I mean, that's good for Rick, and also his, his email is very, you know, he has resource, very smart guy, and is able to find out a lot for himself. I feel that maybe some of these other things that are still coming, or people that don't, you know, don't have his access to information, and his, he's a very, very smart guy. So, maybe that's, maybe that's what it's just people not feeling like they know how to not, and we talked about this, I think, in the meeting about people not knowing how to navigate one

Karen Smythe  2:13:00  
of my questions, because what you're saying is maybe we could facilitate, and my question is, have they tried? Have they reached out to the school, because I haven't heard of anyone who has been turned away

Speaker 1  2:13:11  
by the

Frances Uku  2:13:12  
school, or been unsatisfied,

Karen Smythe  2:13:13  
or or said no, I won't talk to you. I mean, I think several people, and so sometimes, sometimes when someone has a very specific idea of what what is okay and what isn't, and the answer they get isn't what they want. They then look for other ways to keep going at it, and so that, that I'm

Karen Smythe  2:13:31  
not saying that the

Melkorka Kjarval  2:13:32  
idea of a conversation, a reconciliation conversation, right, where concerns are heard and all that sort of stuff. I don't know if the food board is a place for it. I don't know, I mean, but I do think that's that's not there's been a lot of these sort of like conversations that feel so volatile and so played out on Facebook, right? Like, it would be neat if there was a forum for that, like at the community center or some, you know, sort of feeling circle where people felt hurt, and it was like, you know, that would be really cool,

Karen Smythe  2:14:01  
so here's, here's actually what, here's let me, let me toss a notion out. I speak with with Dr. Warden on a semi regular basis. Anyway, to be alright, I'd be happy to reach out with her and say this is something that's come up several times, and just ask her where they are in the process and her perspective on, and I can even talk to Erin Hayes, I don't know, she may be even more involved, and just see if we could do a joint meeting where we invite the folks that you all have heard from, and they just, or even neighborhood gathering, or something, I don't know what they've done, and I don't know, you know, again, for some folks, you know, for Fran, one of the two people she heard feels very satisfied. So the other is, you know, it's a question of where are we in this process and what have they done already. And so let me, if you're all right with that, I'll reach out to Dr. Ward. I

Perry Allen  2:14:55  
appreciate that as a step forward. Sure. And

Karen Smythe  2:14:57  
then we can, and then we can see sort of what even just in the spirit of making sure that everybody feels like they were heard, because I guarantee you everyone's not going to get what they want.

Perry Allen  2:15:07  
Yeah,

Karen Smythe  2:15:07  
because it didn't just.. yeah, we can work that way, but we can at least make sure that anyone who feels that they hadn't been heard or they didn't have the information, they at least then had the information. Okay, so

Perry Allen  2:15:21  
that sounds like a good plan to me.

Karen Smythe  2:15:22  
Great. All right,

Karen Smythe  2:15:26  
we have to review. Okay, assisting the unhoused.

Perry Allen  2:15:30

next item is Wetland Rehabilitation Task Force, I I will just make a, make a couple of comments. I have some issues with some of the whereas is that you have, but I am very, very supportive of establishing this task force, and I think this is a terrific idea. I am the other piece is, I don't, I don't think we're at a point to indicate like the last sentence you have is the intention is to move toward on the ground rehabilitation efforts as soon as possible. I'm not comfortable with that statement because I think we have a lot of information and we have a lot of learning to do. The other piece that's also not not noted in here is there's a DEC easement on this property, so any and everything that's done as it relates to this has to be run by DEC, and I don't know, I don't know what that looks like or what they would expect, but that's why I think establishing the task force, it sort of, you know, because there aren't any members here, this is just to say we want to establish this task force. We're acknowledging that we have this wetland. We're acknowledging that there are a variety of things that have happened, starting with, I mean, way back, actually, Bard College has testing information from the 70s, which was before even read how commons wastewater treatment plant, because the I, you know, when I first heard we had a pie factory, I immediately thought of cherries and apples, and the fact that it's a meat packing pie plant that would discharge all sorts of nasty stuff into the ground, so there's a long history, and I want to make sure that we're not uniquely focusing on the wastewater treatment plant, because we certainly had a year of a year, arguably plus a little, where we were discharging partially or untreated wastewater, very true, but wastewater goes through the ground and it dissipates, so the issues really, it's not a long-term issue from the discharge, and we have not discharged significant, actually, since June. The only discharge that we've had that's been in noncompliance has been partially treated, and I will note we have had no non-compliance events since february 24 and so I just want to make sure that we're not putting in this, that we're blaming everything on the wastewater treatment plant. You might imagine a little sensitive to that.

Perry Allen  1:37:37  
Certainly,

Karen Smythe  1:37:37  
so it's really, so I guess for me it's really just wanting to frame it as this is a wonderful opportunity, and it's I also want to make sure that to me I don't want to charge this group to re.. what's the word I want there.. there was a full cleanup that was done by DEC into.. I think it finished in either 2000 It probably had to be 2006 I don't want to re-litigate that. We have all the testing. They've even - they came back twice last year, at least twice last year, to re-look at everything, and they said everything. If you haven't seen those documents, let me know. I will make sure you have them. They have been shared publicly, they, and so I want to make sure that we're not going to do, you know, testing, etc. because that's really not.. I don't think that's a good use of our time and resources. I think the best use is to say, what.. what's the condition? What's the current condition of the wastewater of the wetland. What are the inputs to the wetlands? Because I think from the pond area that's probably getting storm water from Route nine, and you've got, you've got runoff from Red Hook Estates, that's going into the other side, and then farther up, well, that's not going into the wetlands, so that's not the same. So I think to establish this group to say let's evaluate the let's evaluate the health of the wetland and evaluate the inputs, then say, you know, because I think there's some initial testing in various areas to say what are the inputs, what does it look like, and then say okay, now what can we do, because I had, I had a meeting with Karen Schneller McDonald, who used to be the chair of the waste of the Sawki watershed community, and she is a wetland restoration expert, and because I kept hearing erosion, erosion, I'm like, where's the erosion coming from, because the quantity of water liquid that's coming out of the wastewater treatment plant, it's just not that much, and so when we talked about it, she said, well, there's all this silt and that sort of thing. Well, effectively, where it appears to be coming from is the runoff from red estates, because there's a, there's a decline, and so as all the storm water comes, it's going to take some of the some of

Frances Uku  1:39:58  
the top soil

Karen Smythe  1:40:00  
with it, and that's that really appears to be what's creating the the erosion, so I'm like, okay, it doesn't mean there's no erosion, but let's not blame it on the floor treatment discharge, so that's that's really what I want to,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:40:12  
can I add a, of course,

Karen Smythe  1:40:15  
I just, I shared my thoughts,

Melkorka Kjarval  1:40:17  
yeah, yeah, first off, this is great, and it's awesome, I also am wondering, does it have to be just that area? Can it be like storm water in general, and like resilience in general, or do we want to? I always want to increase the scope, so Karen, right now.

Frances Uku  1:40:33  
So,

Karen Smythe  1:40:35  
here's what,

Speaker 1  1:40:35  
here's

Karen Smythe  1:40:35  
what I'm going to suggest. I'm going to suggest that we, and arguably, instead of calling it the wastewater treatment plant, what wetland rehabilitation task force, maybe we call it a wetland task, and the first

Perry Allen  1:40:46  
project is this one, is

Karen Smythe  1:40:48  
this one, and then, and obviously we can always change it, you know, we can always say down the road we want to expand its, its role or its charge, from the, I would like very much, because one of the issues with expanding too much too quickly is you then lose focus, and then you don't really get anywhere.

Melkorka Kjarval  1:41:06  
I should know this. I just.. I.. there's a lot of like storm water resilience, sort of like you know, you can do studies to like sort of.. there are a lot of places in the village that could, you know, benefit, but

Perry Allen  1:41:18  
I definitely agree, and that's something I'd be personally passionate about pursuing the three local environmental scientists who I've spoken to already, who are passionate about embarking on this, are Zoe Evans. Sorry, my sickness, I can tell, is was there Rogers, Michelle Gluck,

Karen Smythe  1:41:42  
Susan Rogers,

Perry Allen  1:41:43  
Susan Rogers. I haven't been able to touch base with yet because she is currently abroad on

Karen Smythe  1:41:48  
an avian exhibition. She's

Perry Allen  1:41:50  
incredible. Yeah, no, I would like to wrap her in. And is Alice

Speaker 1  1:41:55  
Michelle

Perry Allen  1:41:56  
Sandor, Amanda Sandor? Thank you. Thank you very much. I can feel the cold is rising again. They're all very passionate about the

Karen Smythe  1:42:06  
second one.

Perry Allen  1:42:07  
Michelle Gluck, who also serves on the Climate Smart Committee and works for Ulster County as well in one of their environmental programs.

Karen Smythe  1:42:15  
Yeah, so say Amanda works for the Ulster County Soil and Water,

Perry Allen  1:42:17  
so I..

Karen Smythe  1:42:19  
she lives in the town over here, and then Michelle lives in a village.

Perry Allen  1:42:23  
Yes, only one is a village resident in that way. Is that a, is that okay in terms of our operations? Because I know all three are very passionate to at least volunteer their

Karen Smythe  1:42:33  
services. I was going to say, here's one thought, and this would be a question of what, what the makeup is, I think having experts is, is, is going to be very valuable. The other question would be, does it make sense to have some interested folks who might live on Smith Street, for example?

Perry Allen  1:42:50  
Yes, I agree,

Karen Smythe  1:42:51  
as a, as a possible, and again, not everybody, but I think there might be a thought as to there may be some folks who are a little more engaged and a little bit more, because you don't want someone to come in and just say everything's terrible and we can't do anything about it, or you know that you want someone who's productive, but there may be a couple folks, because I, he would be great. Do you know Chris Solomon,

Perry Allen  1:43:18  
Julia Solomon's husband, not personally.

Karen Smythe  1:43:21  
He works for Cary Institute, and he's a, he's aquatic restoration. I would

Melkorka Kjarval  1:43:28  
like for you

Perry Allen  1:43:31  
to please connect me with whoever, and I will talk

Karen Smythe  1:43:36  
to live over there might, might be an interesting one or two, not overwhelming the committee, I spoke. I had forgotten two months ago I said yes to being the speaker for the Rotary this morning, and there's a woman who lives on Benner Road, and she has like a little sliver in the village, and she's interested, because I mentioned that I actually mentioned that I was hoping we'd agree with this tonight, and she mentioned that she's really interested. She's not sure who wants, she wants to be on the committee, and I said, "Well, there'll be.. it'll be a public meeting, so you can always go to the meeting and see what.. well, it depends on what, and I'm like, "I get it. I said, "But you know, we'll make it public, so you're aware, and you can come and sort of either give you two cents or just listen, so I think that may be a way, but I think the piece that's going to be important is to say what is our charge, you know, what is it that we are charging this committee with, and I think it's to come up with a plan to evaluate, you know, so pull together the history, come up with a plan to evaluate, and, and certainly, I mean, I think looking at potential funding sources, I think possibly before the well, the funding sources may, you know, it's part of it, is what's the plan to sort of assess

Perry Allen  1:45:00  
that was the last thing, and then there's funding. What's the proposal for here?

Karen Smythe  1:45:04  
And then you do the assessment, and then you come up with more funding to do the restoration stuff, because first you're going to need money to assess what you've got, and then you're going to need money to actually implement the plan that you come up with. You probably need money to come up with the plan too.

Perry Allen  1:45:19  
I was gonna say the coming up with the plan as well, so the one part we didn't say yes. Okay, great. I mean, I agree with this. I think I'm comfortable striking whatever we need to, because I care mostly about just this far starting. So,

Karen Smythe  1:45:35  
here's what I'm, here's what I'm going to recommend.

Karen Smythe  1:45:37  
Yeah,

Karen Smythe  1:45:37  
that we don't vote on this tonight, that we rework

Perry Allen  1:45:43  
uncomfortable redrafting based off of coming back to it,

Karen Smythe  1:45:47  
because I think when we've established, I mean, we're calling this a task force, we can call it a committee, you know,

Frances Uku  1:45:53  
I like committee,

Perry Allen  1:45:54  
I wanted to hear,

Perry Allen  1:46:02  
like it

Karen Smythe  1:46:09  
sounds active, I'll shoot an email to Nicom, and say, what do you see? What do you see the differences between task force and community? Someone had told me that task forces are generally created by the mayor at the at the mayor's entire whim was not the word that was used, but and so I don't, this is going to be, and so I think it may end up making more sense to call it a committee because we have a formal process for that that we went through last year, so but then with that it'll we'll talk about how many members, how many, how many we want from who live in the village

Frances Uku  1:46:47  
terms,

Karen Smythe  1:46:49  
you know. And then we can have the charge of, and we can create the charge that says, you know, sort of the overall charge is to focus on, you know, to start with focusing on the wastewater treatment plant wetland, we need to come up with a name, it can't be the wastewater,

Perry Allen  1:47:04  
whereas I tried to

Perry Allen  1:47:05  
loop with the Red Hood, used

Karen Smythe  1:47:08  
to be called Mazinos Pond,

Perry Allen  1:47:11  
I like that,

Frances Uku  1:47:19  
but then you'd have to educate this one, what is what is Mazinos Wetland? I don't know,

Karen Smythe  1:47:26  
it's a.. there's.. it's.. it's in the.. isn't it in the comprehensive plan?

Melkorka Kjarval  1:47:31  
I think our

Karen Smythe  1:47:32  
big one, and

Perry Allen  1:47:36  
a few docs with

Frances Uku  1:47:38  
it. Just into.. if this is something that you're envisioning being able to go into the community and get buy-in right away, and start work, like, just, you know, just introducing a new name, and if it's, if it's a tricky to get your mouth around name, it just might be, you want some, I hear what you mean, something, but on the, on the, on the flip side, it actually, for those who've been here a long time, they're very familiar with Massanos Pond. I mean, not, not new folks, but so there are definitely those who are familiar with Massanos Pond,

Karen Smythe  1:48:08  
and there are.. I mean, it used to be.. there's a whole history. So, the flip side, I understand what you're saying, but the other way is by introducing this name, you're validating it to the history, and there'll be somebody in there, say, well, where'd that

Perry Allen  1:48:22  
finally,

Karen Smythe  1:48:23  
and so that can also be part of the description of the wetland, because part of it, I think, is to understand the history, and it just needs to not be the wastewater treatment plant wetland, it's like that's too many words anyway, so anyway, I mean, obviously the it can be different, but you're right, it, it is a, it is a pond. We should have, we should do a session where we all walk back there, pretty cool.

Perry Allen  1:48:51  
Actually, having a chance to get into

Speaker 1  1:48:53  
the wetlands,

Karen Smythe  1:48:54  
I have some of it's a little bush whacking, but it's, it's pretty cool back

Speaker 1  1:48:58  
there.

Perry Allen  1:49:00  
And I just want to say this as well, before we move on, and then I'm happy to edit this. Thank you so much for thoughts and support on this. I really believe in this. I put this under my project list simply because I feel like I have the energy for it, you know, and I think I have a certain skill in just project direction and management, not because I necessarily feel like I'm an expert in the rehabilitation process, but that's why we'll bring in all of these

Karen Smythe  1:49:24  
people, and then you'll get someone else to chair the committee.

Perry Allen  1:49:26  
Yeah, yeah, sure. Fair enough.

Karen Smythe  1:49:28  
I don't have any, I don't have any issue with that. I know anybody else is leaping forward to say that's got to be mine. I think

Melkorka Kjarval  1:49:39  
sewer liaison, you have like a lot of there's going to have a lot more knowledge as you go,

Perry Allen  1:49:43  
yeah,

Speaker 1  1:49:44  
fantastic.

Perry Allen  1:49:45  
Thank you. All right, I'll come back to the next meeting.

Karen Smythe  1:49:48  
So, one, so let's, let's work together, let's look at the past format that we've used for other committees, and then maybe we can also have an initial members to start at our at our next meeting as a possibility, and if not, we can say we'll add them later, but, but I think that's, I think, yeah, no, I think this is great.

Perry Allen  1:50:09  
Okay, perfect. Thank you. This was fun to write a resolution. Never, never written a resolution in my life.

Okay, we don't have a lot of time. These are discussion points that I'm going to keep coming back to. Mel Cork has filled me a lot about

Melkorka Kjarval  2:15:41  
the

Perry Allen  2:15:42  
work. that's being done in terms of finding housing, and so I think I'm trying to, to everyone who's reaching out to me about this, communicate that as much as possible, to let them know that those gears are turning, both on the town level, etc. And I wanted to just put the germ out there, as I know we have larger conversations going on in terms of restructuring budget. We're looking at some of the police spending, etc. as we look forward over the next couple years. There, we could, in theory, have the opportunity, as some of those funds become available, of bringing someone on board in the village, who's a part-time social work employee, who can be a point person for individuals such as this, and larger. I know a big thing that we like here at the village is creating systems that can function outside of specific circumstances, and perhaps this is an idea that maybe could be that, that could help both those who are unhoused, be a point person for those, but then also serve other functional system social service work that a municipality has the jurisdiction over. So I just wanted to throw that idea out there as these conversations continue to move forward, since I know there will be a lot going on. I don't have a specific proposal in this moment that I'm asking for us to consider. I really just wanted to discuss it, but I also see the test,

Karen Smythe  2:17:08  
so I just want to share two things, and I think you've been copied on this. The Red Hook Together has a committee that's been discussing this, and one of the things that has come up is, and in theory, the county has a grant. I believe if you look at the grant, it's a matching grant, which makes it pretty much sort of defeats the entire purpose of having a grant, which I have, I've mentioned to not our county legislator yet, but another one, but there's when there's an emergency and a big storm, there are temporary mobile housing units that have separate, so if you think about the people that we know, we don't have, we don't have a big, it's not like we have an enormous issue, even last year when we had the warming center in the Catholic Church. We, I don't think we, I don't think we ever turned anybody away, but the two that we know of here, they can't stay in something like that. They have to be in their own separate space, and so these things are rentable, and you hook them up to water, they provide sewer service if they don't have sewer to hook up to, and electric and fuel summits obviously don't hook up to the biggest issue you run into is where's it going to go, where's it going to be, and and that's an issue because there's liability associated if it's the village, because you know it really, it's not ideal to put it here in the village parking lot, because it's there for parking, it's not there for housing, it's, you know, sort of the question is, where would it go, and so that's, but that probably the, to me, the most important urgent local issue is to next winter have a place that people, a handful, limited number of people can go and be warm, and that's and the other issue that we run into when it comes to, you know, on a more permanent basis, if you have mental health issues, a part-time person, is that really enough? What happens when something happens at two in the morning, and the other is you're going to have to have somebody clean, and who's going to do that, and where does you know, and again, if the town supervisor said money is not the issue, I'm not sure that's true, but I think money is a consideration, but I think the details of how do you manage that in terms of a social worker. I think that's, I think that it would have to be sort of a bigger purpose, because we, you know, the limited number of folks that are connected to homelessness. I think there are other folks, certainly, that the police officers come across where there are mental health issues, where arguably someone could follow up after there's something where the police are called to do follow-up checks, so that they don't

Melkorka Kjarval  2:20:10  
get back to the point of shared services thing, where there were social workers from the county that came up, you know, for different days, and we people knew that they were in the village on a Thursday, like, but

Karen Smythe  2:20:22  
so I think that's probably something that we could work with our county legislator about what does.. what does that look like? And then I think the homeless scenario is not the same thing. It doesn't mean that there's not a little overlap, but I think it's.. it's a little bit of two different things

Melkorka Kjarval  2:20:39  
That office hours, it would be totally different. I'm so sorry.

Karen Smythe  2:20:42  
It would be absolutely no, it would be

Karen Smythe  2:20:46  
so. I think this will be an ongoing, yeah, ongoing conversation. And

Perry Allen  2:20:50  
basically, I'll follow up with you later. Yeah, I'm not some of that. I want to keep, keep talking about it. Thank you.

Karen Smythe  2:20:57  
Okay. Secret concern,

Perry Allen  2:21:02  
my secret concern is this, that we as a village are on the precipice of many major development projects, just in general, across the board, over the next 10 years, and I believe that we should have for best operating practices a I think it should be on the books that an independent person should sign the seeker. I just think it makes sense. Is

my secret concern is this, that we as a village are on the precipice of many major development projects, just in general, across the board, over the next 10 years, and I believe that we should have for best operating practices a I think it should be on the books that an independent person should sign the seeker. I just think it makes sense. Is

Karen Smythe  2:21:31  
this a seeker for a project that comes to the to the village board or to the planning board? Or

Perry Allen  2:21:37  
that's a great clarifying question of terms of operations that I have to figure out for myself.

Karen Smythe  2:21:42  
I would also, I think, that's an interesting.. it's not the first time I've heard that. I think there are pluses and minuses to that approach. So, I think because if that's a development project, for example, and we are requiring that an independent consultant does an overview,

Speaker 1  2:21:58  
then the

Karen Smythe  2:21:59  
developer is going to pay for those, and so now we're adding cost to something that we are trying to encourage. So, I think there, and if we, if we do the seeker properly, we shouldn't need to have out. I mean, I think usually the, you should have someone independent, because it's a concern that the people who are doing it are not doing it properly, so I think there's an opportunity down the road, not too far down the road, to have a conversation with Victoria Polidoro, our land use attorney, and just ask her about the concept of having an independent review, and if others do that, and if they do, what are the pluses and minuses, etc.

Speaker 1  2:22:45  
Sounds great.

Frances Uku  2:22:45  
And seeker reform is something that's very big in the legislature now. That's what's the number of bills that are addressing that in communities, especially small, smaller villages like ours.

Perry Allen  2:22:56  
I'm aware that I was aware of one interested to talk to you about this at another time.

Karen Smythe  2:23:02  
That was

Perry Allen  2:23:03  
going to roll back certain things that

Karen Smythe  2:23:04  
I want. I think the notion, the notion is to make it to try to streamline the process, not to eliminate the process, to make sure that environmental reviews are done, but to not make it so that it becomes a mechanism for people to stop a project they don't want to have happen, and you can do that by just, you know, just add so much time that you're adding so much cost that the developer will go away, and that's really, you know, there's a, there's a balance in there of understanding what you know, you don't want just development with no concern for the environment, but you also need, you're never going to get any more housing if you don't allow for it's, you know, changing disruption trade-offs, trade-offs. Thank you, that's the right word. But, yeah, no, I mean, I think I love the fact that you said 10 years, because I think that's something is important for us to be thinking about. It's like, what's coming down the pike, and a lot of, you know, some of the stuff that we're doing is going to affect that activity, and that's an exciting opportunity to say we're going to have these things to worry about, so that's a good thing. All right, next item is sewer check-in.

All right, next item is sewer check-in.

Perry Allen  2:24:09  
Honestly, I just wanted to continue facilitating conversation around the sewer and some thoughts that I had. I'm tired and sick. I don't have anything most pressing,

Speaker 1  2:24:22  
so one

Karen Smythe  2:24:22  
thing I

Perry Allen  2:24:23  
just

Karen Smythe  2:24:23  
said that I do want to let you all know is the budget note closed last Thursday. We did end up going with the Bank of Green County. We received the funding in the sewer fund account on Thursday, and Mary Beth transferred. So, what we did was a $200,000 budget note, which I think was what the resolution was for. No, it was up

Speaker 1  2:24:46  
to 205

Karen Smythe  2:24:46  
So we did 200,000 because that was a nice round number. And Mary Beth transferred from the sewer fund to the general fund, also on Thursday, the $205,430 So we are fully compliant with our resolution, and, and so that, that's that's now all done. So I did want to, I did want to give you that, and I do, I do want to, Fran, you made some adjustments to your sewer billing. I want to tell you that there are some elements to looking at making the sewer billing more equitable, ie, not have the cliff, but there are a number of parcels, Noelwood Commons is not a full edu firm, and so, and since it's related to water use, Jen has actually done some, and some of some of what we need to consider is how our billing system works, and there's certain ways that would create significantly more work than than less. So, Jen has started the process of, she has looked at the the amount of water over the last many quarters by the sewer use area parcels and looked at a couple of and pulled out Norwood Commons and put them back in because they're a percentage of the O and M because we did not they have they have an own their tanks and pumps, so we don't maintain those. So, anyway, I think that the concept that we will be moving towards a different method is, is, is, is definitely on the on the books.

Frances Uku  2:26:34  
Okay, I only really put this on the on the agenda for the benefit of Craig and Perry, who were not here. I started. This is from, and I haven't changed anything, actually, only including the AI disclaimer, but other than that, this is exactly as I presented it in February, and it's just, just some ideas to start thinking about, especially as we do have the budget note, and you know, and sewer, we have to begin, in my view, thinking about what our repayment options will be, also the possibility of subsidy, no subsidy. These are just, and if no subsidy, then we're looking at O and M and rates, and all of this. So, this is there are some questions that I had originally when I presented this. It was for the board to discuss possibly releasing some version of it as a public document for people I know. When I started working on this, it was very.. I had no idea what I'm not on sewer, so I had no idea how to read what a sewer customer's utility bill looked like. I know I have water, so that's what I see, but figuring out how it all. how it breaks down for a sewer, a sewer customer in terms of capital costs, and then O and M, and how all that work. There's a little bit in there, some of which we touched on about the history of the system.

Karen Smythe  2:27:56  
Let me just jump in. There are a couple of, there are couple of inaccuracies in the history. Okay, you have the step system constructed between 2018 and 2020 It's 22 to 23 is when that was constructed.

Frances Uku  2:28:08  
My favorite thing

Karen Smythe  2:28:09  
is correct. 2025 it says contractor replaced. It was actually the operator that was replaced.

Frances Uku  2:28:17  
That's the ho taking over from, well, no, initially the Delaware, and then ho, yeah, but anyway, and then there were some questions I had in there about the reassessments and how we, how we established the new edus, and these are these are board questions, they were not supposed to, then that the things I have in the gray boxes were not for public, it was just for an understanding as a board of some of the considered financial considerations that we need to take into account as far as how these have the numbers, how we came to those numbers and what numbers we will be looking at going forward, so yeah, that's this was just to put this in front of you. I invite questions. It also highlights the steps for what we would be doing when, if, and when, when we choose to update the sewer law, which is the 145 which I believe is on the, it's on one of the pages there somewhere, I think I have it at the end,

Karen Smythe  2:29:24  
but you're a little optimistic in the timing, time frame it takes, but that's that's three to four weeks,

Frances Uku  2:29:31  
no, that's for schedule, that's for us making that's not the whole process, that's not the whole process, and I actually, I took out, I had a cat, not a calendar, but which is no longer here. Previously, when I first presented it, yeah, that's not here anymore. When I first presented it, I had a timeline, and that's that's not here anymore. So, anyway, that was to give you, that's that's I have.

Karen Smythe  2:29:58  
We have, yeah, we have future, we have future work to do, and as it, as it relates to how things were put together, there's, you know, Jen did a lot of work, I did some work with her, so

Craig Rothstein  2:30:11  
you can

Karen Smythe  2:30:11  
always ask, ask the question. Okay.

Frances Uku  2:30:17  
Oh, yeah, there it is. Sorry, page 12, that's why. What would it take implementing any of these yet, that's where it was, but no, not weeks. It's certainly there's there's waiting periods, there's stuff we have to file with Secretary of State. There are a number of things, but that's just

Karen Smythe  2:30:33  
to share is the code. The entire code was lifted from another municipality, and it was just sort of thrown in because you needed it, and there's a lot of things that don't apply to us and need to be amended, so

Frances Uku  2:30:47  
you mean in our e code, like ours was copied,

Karen Smythe  2:30:50  
our code, well, that's where it began, and there were a few adjustments, but I think the general notion was, well, here let's put it in here, and then when we get going, we'll adjust it, so the prior sewer team actually spent about a year going through the code, and we have all those amendments, but we need to put them in a form to put forth to the board to

Frances Uku  2:31:12  
for passing and then updating

Karen Smythe  2:31:13  
change and update the whole thing. Got it? So the hope is that we'll do that in contact in concert with the rate update that would be ideal, and our professionals need to weigh in on that,

Frances Uku  2:31:30  
of course.

Karen Smythe  2:31:32  
Okay, we good for that, right? Yes, yes,

Perry Allen  2:31:34

We have, yeah, we have future, we have future work to do, and as it, as it relates to how things were put together, there's, you know, Jen did a lot of work, I did some work with her, so

Craig Rothstein  2:30:11  
you can

Karen Smythe  2:30:11  
always ask, ask the question. Okay.

Frances Uku  2:30:17  
Oh, yeah, there it is. Sorry, page 12, that's why. What would it take implementing any of these yet, that's where it was, but no, not weeks. It's certainly there's there's waiting periods, there's stuff we have to file with Secretary of State. There are a number of things, but that's just

Karen Smythe  2:30:33  
to share is the code. The entire code was lifted from another municipality, and it was just sort of thrown in because you needed it, and there's a lot of things that don't apply to us and need to be amended, so

Frances Uku  2:30:47  
you mean in our e code, like ours was copied,

Karen Smythe  2:30:50  
our code, well, that's where it began, and there were a few adjustments, but I think the general notion was, well, here let's put it in here, and then when we get going, we'll adjust it, so the prior sewer team actually spent about a year going through the code, and we have all those amendments, but we need to put them in a form to put forth to the board to

Frances Uku  2:31:12  
for passing and then updating

Karen Smythe  2:31:13  
change and update the whole thing. Got it? So the hope is that we'll do that in contact in concert with the rate update that would be ideal, and our professionals need to weigh in on that,

Frances Uku  2:31:30  
of course.

Karen Smythe  2:31:32  
Okay, we good for that, right? Yes, yes,

Perry Allen  2:31:34  
yes. With the phase two, I'll talk basically about.. I think it's really fantastic. I just had an editorial thought, and I will share with you at another time. Okay, sure.

Frances Uku  2:31:43  
Yeah, that's a whole other village. Yes, I just have this from you, from the committee, for you from the committee. They were, you had very helpfully given the committee feedback on the postcard design, so I just wanted.. I, and the chair also presented me with a quote, they would like to do a 200 unit run, and so I'm just here to move that we accept that and authorize me to place the order for them. If everybody

Melkorka Kjarval  2:32:10  
is wearing county has a really cheap print shop that we use.

Frances Uku  2:32:15  
Oh, really? Minuteman is what I knew that to use, but if you have somewhere else,

Karen Smythe  2:32:18  
what I would, what I would recommend is that you send it in to Jen and ask her to get a quote from the county,

Karen Smythe  2:32:24  
okay?

Karen Smythe  2:32:24  
It, it might take a little longer. I don't know how. I don't.. has that been your.. has that been your experience, or not necessarily?

Melkorka Kjarval  2:32:31  
I don't know what is longer, and that's the thing, is like.. I don't know how

Frances Uku  2:32:35  
this.. well, I mean, I guess it's a.. it's a.. it's a choice. I mean, yeah, I don't know what is longer, and also, what, what would we be looking, because this is 150 or 148 so do

Melkorka Kjarval  2:32:47  
the budget, it's not a big deal, it's just you can, we, that's,

Karen Smythe  2:32:50  
you can, you can, you can get things for a lot less from, yeah,

Frances Uku  2:32:55  
a lot less, okay,

Melkorka Kjarval  2:32:56  
so basically, like, like you, they're a great hookup, that's how we get our brochures printed, it's like it's at a great discount. They don't do everything. Maybe this project, we use Minuteman to when it's like a quick turnaround. Just want to let you know that that's an option.

Frances Uku  2:33:11  
No, I appreciate it. It's only that they, you know, people are leaving soon for the summer, and they had wanted to do their push in June.

Karen Smythe  2:33:17  
And what is.. and remind me, what.. what these, what these are going to be used for,

Frances Uku  2:33:22  
door knocking and placing their door to door. There's no postage, and like this

Karen Smythe  2:33:28  
is just.. I'll be interested to see if people come back with more than just trees. Can may we plant you something? I think the

Frances Uku  2:33:35  
QR code

Speaker 1  2:33:37  
is,

Frances Uku  2:33:38  
yeah, no, but yeah, that's for the tree, but the link actually goes

Karen Smythe  2:33:43  
to the.. that's what I said. People will figure it out. Can we plant you something? I'm like,

Frances Uku  2:33:50  
oh,

Karen Smythe  2:33:52  
so what I.. what I wouldn't mind suggesting is if you would just touch base with Jen tomorrow and ask her to get a quick quote from Duchess County, because if it's half the price, it would certainly be, you know, worth, worth that, and if it takes a week instead of two days, you're still week is fine June. Yeah, so perhaps what we can do as a group is we can approve it up to, and then, and then if you are able to get it for significantly less.

Karen Smythe  2:34:22  
I will

Frances Uku  2:34:22  
certainly do that.

Karen Smythe  2:34:23  
The way to go,

Frances Uku  2:34:25  
that sounds, yeah, that sounds great. Okay, so

Karen Smythe  2:34:28  
motion, motion to approve.

Frances Uku  2:34:29  
Yeah, motion to approve. I will make that motion to approve the Village Green postcard design. I thank you. They will be very grateful. Okay. And then this other thing is also super quick. This is just the village green is is expressing interest in applying for this 10 minutes. It's very exciting. For I saw it, and then Jen emailed it to me, and then Tara, it's.. it's.. there's no match, and the minimum grant award is $50,000 Brenda Cagle, and Dave Pearson, a number of the committee members, both on Village Green and public spaces, are exploring the possibility of, well, I mean, public spaces is another angle, but specifically Village Green and town tree commission are thinking about doing an inter municipal grant push, and to quote Brenda, that this would be a there seems to be the will I have offered or volunteered, if the committee members are willing and able to provide support, I have offered to be lead on the grant application, if the, if the board seems like this is something that we want to enable them to move towards. Brenda had said the town tree commission has been, has been discussing doing a tree inventory, which is what I should have started, that this is, these are grants for urban forestry inventory management, all of this stuff that for years back and forth, this is, you know, 10 years when I first joined, you know, Village Green, like it's just the money to do the what you would like to do, you know, even an app, like it's, it's, it would just be amazing. So Brenda is, she, she asked me, the committee members asked me to float the possibility of working with the town. I think it would be a strong application, given all the hard work that both groups have done for many years. So, it's, it's very early. There's a webinar. I just wanted to put this in front of you and get some sense of if this is something that you are all happy with Village Green speaking more about, because I mean, ultimately we would have to approve it. So I have to know if everyone is thinking that this is a good idea.

Karen Smythe  2:36:53  
I think it's, I think it's great that you're bringing it to the board now, because obviously it's in its very nascent stage. It's like, well, what is it? What you know that, because presumably a tree inventory, there'd be an consultant or something, it would do that, whatever. So, obviously, there's a lot more, a lot more to find out. The fact that there's no match makes it easy. The fact that it's a minimum 50,000 is, you know, having it be a combined grant is an interesting way to go from my standpoint. I think you and I need to talk a little bit more about Abraham's Park. I think I mentioned briefly that Amy had found there's a new grant that just went out related to play space, et cetera. I think for the NY plays, yes, what I was just thinking, given that it's a tree inventory, really the connection there is that the tree inventory should include all of our public space, so the trees on Memorial Park, the trees in Abraham's Park. So I think that would be how it would affect the public spaces committee from that standpoint. So

Perry Allen  2:37:54  
that's what I thought as well.

Karen Smythe  2:37:55  
I think I mean I don't have any problem with continuing to pursue. I think again, depending on where it goes and what it looks like, we could also at some point say maybe not, but, but I think, go ahead

Melkorka Kjarval  2:38:07  
when we talk to consultants, you know, they asked whether or not we had an urban forestry, you know, whatever they call inventory,

Speaker 1  2:38:20  
because it

Melkorka Kjarval  2:38:21  
is very helpful

Frances Uku  2:38:24  
points. Yeah,

Karen Smythe  2:38:25  
well, the nice part is we have one, but it was done a long time ago. Yeah, so this would be a nice.. it was like 2007

Frances Uku  2:38:31  
It was a long time when, yeah, so

Karen Smythe  2:38:33  
it would be nice to sort of take that. The other part that would be is if there's a way to take that information and put it either into diamond maps or into something that is accessible,

Frances Uku  2:38:45  
central,

Karen Smythe  2:38:47  
you know, if you could click on a tree and say, oh, that's a whatever, and it was planted here, and you know that would be the,

Frances Uku  2:38:53  
that's what this,

Speaker 1  2:38:54  
that's the

Karen Smythe  2:38:55  
goal,

Frances Uku  2:38:56  
that's yeah, street tree and landscape park tree inventory, so that's Abrams and assessment using terrestrial lidar. So this is all this one. Yeah, this is tree 108 Same

Karen Smythe  2:39:17  
here, very close. Yeah, we are attorney-client sessions. All I wanted to say was the whole idea behind them was to give you all access to our village attorney for an hour, which means that it's already set up, it's efficient, and therefore both cost-effective, and so there isn't a an agenda that's going to be created by somebody else. The idea is the agenda comes from you. So, if there are things that you want to ask, ideally it's about things on the upcoming agenda, but if there are things that you're thinking about, man, is it legal to do this, or can we do that, or on your committee you've run into something and you want to ask, or we did something, and you say, you know, and I just don't get it. This is your opportunity to ask the attorney again. The idea is to ask something that's related to the upcoming agenda, but we have an hour, so the opportunity is to, you absolutely do not have to come. It is not mandatory, one iota. I always have things to talk to the attorney about, so I my plan, and the email that I sent was just because the idea was, or what the attorney had told me initially was, the day of was the best day for him. So it also helps us, because it settles our, our agenda. We're usually settling our agenda Thursday and Friday, so Monday we have it Monday at 11 every board meeting day. Then you all have access to the attorney. If you don't want to come, you absolutely don't have to come for June. He just needed to move it because he had a court date on that Monday. So we have the meeting. I will forward you the link, and again, you're welcome to come. You don't have to come, but this is, you know, that's that's the point. That's really just what I wanted to say, is at feel no obligation, but this isn't an easy opportunity for you all to have access to the village attorney. So that was all I wanted to share about that.

Frances Uku  2:41:19  
Okay, so the bit that I, because we had talked just a little bit, and I just wanted to put this out for you all about the process for our, for the meeting, which I agree with Karen. We had it was nice being able to ask questions of the attorney, but the timing, I feel that if we specifically, if we're talking about the budget note resolution we had, that and we had the meeting at 11, and then we were moving to a vote that evening, there wasn't really time by the when he provided, when council provided his opinion, it was already past 5o'clock on the day that the on the day that we were voting on the budget note, it's, it's just not in, it's not a lot of time to be able to make informed decisions about consequential board actions like that one, so this is why I was proposing in the email I touched on, if we were to have our one hour with the attorney before workshops, where we are discussing what is upcoming, like for instance. Okay, these, these today was very, very pleasant and straightforward, but, but when we do have things coming up, like say the budget note, had we been able to ask questions, I had questions about other, other possible avenues, but it did seem that that the attorney was very set on the budget note as being the way that I mean, even in the because Jen had these in our boxes, and even in the legally sound path of the budget note, this is the email that he sent at 5pm and it says the board has already taken the correct action tonight by adopting the budget note, but we hadn't voted at that point, so, so that's a foregone conclusion before we, before we get to the vote, and also there's, and it's a shame, because I had sent, I'd emailed Jen, but she's clearly not here today, so she wasn't able to print this out, but also there's also an accuracy issue on the on this pier, where he quotes the reason he has a pre-adon, he has some provision there where he says that something is not legal because it expressly, expressly limits additional appropriations to monies within a fund, but when you, when you read that five 524 the actual statute does not say that at all, and he says that language forecloses cross fund transfers outside the budget adoption process. It doesn't. Where it says within a fund is literally those three words. It's like you read it's like if you, if you go to see a play, and you read a review, and it says this was a terrible play, that,

Karen Smythe  2:44:28  
and if I can perhaps cut to the chase, what you're, what you're talking about is what, so that the issue is, if we have the attorney, the attorney session before the workshop, guarantee you that there will be things that will come up that we didn't discuss at the workshop, that will be on the agenda at the regular meeting. There are things that come up in the two weeks in between that won't have discussed at the workshop. So, the opportunity, this is the tricky part, is we need to pick a time, so if we pick it for Monday morning, we have an opportunity now, something like the budget note, that's more, that's, that's more of an extraordinary item, and there was a very, a very tight time constraint at that point that we didn't have a whole lot of, whole lot more time, so for example, if we pass the budget note tonight, we didn't close on the on the note for a week and a half after, if I remember correctly, it's the time was of the essence, and so in a situation like that, and yeah, I mean, not the I, because the council that wrote the budget note was not our village council, it was bond council, and yeah, etc. So it was a little bit more of a complicated affair. More than happy to, you know, you're welcome to go come back and have that conversation about what he said in his, in his response. And I think he's making the assumption that we were going to pass the budget note, so he wrote it that way. That's I am, I am projecting on him.

Frances Uku  2:46:05  
I mean, but that's telling in itself, like if he was, if he's writing, assuming

Karen Smythe  2:46:12  
if even if he didn't assume he's basically saying this is the right way to go. That's what he said, it's the right way to go,

Frances Uku  2:46:17  
it's the right way to go. It's, but this is something that he said foreclosed any other option, but it doesn't, so anyway,

Karen Smythe  2:46:26  
that's that's his legal opinion versus your legal opinion, which is not something I think we need to get into right now.

Frances Uku  2:46:33  
It's not a legal opinion, it's just reading English, and literally

Karen Smythe  2:46:37  
that's not what it says, and you're interpreting the law,

Frances Uku  2:46:39  
but I'm not interpreting, I'm just like, literally,

Karen Smythe  2:46:42  
yeah, let's,

Karen Smythe  2:46:42  
let's not go there. So, what the question really, the question on the table is, when is the best time to have to have an attorney-client session? I, I happen to think that it, it's never going to be perfect. We could also ask for the Thursday before, because that then gives at least a couple of days before, and there are some things that come up at the last minute, or they're not quite done, etc. but the Thursday before is another option. When I talked to him about what does what works for his schedule, he did indicate that Monday was, you know, Monday on these days, except for June, worked for him, but if you all think it would be better to have it before, if you all agree that having it the morning of the workshop is the way to go. I can certainly ask him how that works for him.

And then this other thing is also super quick. This is just the village green is is expressing interest in applying for this 10 minutes. It's very exciting. For I saw it, and then Jen emailed it to me, and then Tara, it's.. it's.. there's no match, and the minimum grant award is $50,000 Brenda Cagle, and Dave Pearson, a number of the committee members, both on Village Green and public spaces, are exploring the possibility of, well, I mean, public spaces is another angle, but specifically Village Green and town tree commission are thinking about doing an inter municipal grant push, and to quote Brenda, that this would be a there seems to be the will I have offered or volunteered, if the committee members are willing and able to provide support, I have offered to be lead on the grant application, if the, if the board seems like this is something that we want to enable them to move towards. Brenda had said the town tree commission has been, has been discussing doing a tree inventory, which is what I should have started, that this is, these are grants for urban forestry inventory management, all of this stuff that for years back and forth, this is, you know, 10 years when I first joined, you know, Village Green, like it's just the money to do the what you would like to do, you know, even an app, like it's, it's, it would just be amazing. So Brenda is, she, she asked me, the committee members asked me to float the possibility of working with the town. I think it would be a strong application, given all the hard work that both groups have done for many years. So, it's, it's very early. There's a webinar. I just wanted to put this in front of you and get some sense of if this is something that you are all happy with Village Green speaking more about, because I mean, ultimately we would have to approve it. So I have to know if everyone is thinking that this is a good idea.

Karen Smythe  2:36:53  
I think it's, I think it's great that you're bringing it to the board now, because obviously it's in its very nascent stage. It's like, well, what is it? What you know that, because presumably a tree inventory, there'd be an consultant or something, it would do that, whatever. So, obviously, there's a lot more, a lot more to find out. The fact that there's no match makes it easy. The fact that it's a minimum 50,000 is, you know, having it be a combined grant is an interesting way to go from my standpoint. I think you and I need to talk a little bit more about Abraham's Park. I think I mentioned briefly that Amy had found there's a new grant that just went out related to play space, et cetera. I think for the NY plays, yes, what I was just thinking, given that it's a tree inventory, really the connection there is that the tree inventory should include all of our public space, so the trees on Memorial Park, the trees in Abraham's Park. So I think that would be how it would affect the public spaces committee from that standpoint. So

Perry Allen  2:37:54  
that's what I thought as well.

Karen Smythe  2:37:55  
I think I mean I don't have any problem with continuing to pursue. I think again, depending on where it goes and what it looks like, we could also at some point say maybe not, but, but I think, go ahead

Melkorka Kjarval  2:38:07  
when we talk to consultants, you know, they asked whether or not we had an urban forestry, you know, whatever they call inventory,